Always get lag in audio

[GregiBoy]

If you are encoding for use on your WDTV, may I ask why you are using the AppleTV profile?

My good friend & moderator colleague, W&B, tells me that the Samsung profile that I have posted in the "New Profiles" area of the forum works great on his WDTV.

This is a modified variant of the generic.h264.avi.audiocopy profile. There is also a MKV version of this profile.

Why not give that a go and report back results?

I tested this on Monday with 7.0.4.0 using my standard tests for sync problems and all was perfect.

[Ozzie]

Thanks IPopov50

I also use mkv for my WDTV, but I had no idea I could keep an uncompressed image into an mkv container nor did I have a clue on how to get it in there. I assume I can go from DVD to a single iso with fab right?

Anyway back to the audio lag problem, decided instead of going from DVD to mp4 using a DVD, I decided to try file to mobile. So I got my movie which is in an mkv container and play's in perfectly A/V sync and used the AppleTV default settings to encode it into a mp4 file.

The results:
No different! The movie starts with a slight audio lag that gets prgessively worst as the movie plays. By the end of a 2 hour and 10 minute movie the audio was 1.9 seconds behind the video.

This is really frustrating and I surely hope a solution can be found by Ting.

[Realnoize]

From what I see, that utility won't deal with the "progressive audio sync loss" problem. It'll work fine if the sync is off a fixed amount across the board, but not where it starts out fine then gets to be 5 seconds off at the 2 hour mark.

I don't know. There are various methods described on the page. One is only an audio shift function that, I agree, won't fix anything that gets progressively worse.

But there's another application talked about lower on the page (situation 2) that is made expressly to fix gradual loss of a/v synchronization.

The way I understood it, it plays with the fps setting, and lowering it or accelerating it (very very slightly) will have a progressive effect, since the time saved or gained adds up every second...

An fps set at 23.96 instead of, for example 23.97 will result in the movie being at frame 14376 at the 10:00 mark, instead of 14382 (6 frames behind), and at frame 28752 at 20:00 instead of 28764 (12 frames behind). So yes, playing slightly with the fps WILL have a progressive effect.

I haven't tested it yet (had to reinstall Windows due to another problem) but I will surely do if I can't find a way to make the DVDFab conversion work as it should.

[midiwall]

Also, I've found some utilities that are (suposedly) able to fix those type of a/v sync problems in AVI files. http://www.gromkov.com/faq/faq2004-0064.html. Might be worth a shot.

From what I see, that utility won't deal with the "progressive audio sync loss" problem. It'll work fine if the sync is off a fixed amount across the board, but not where it starts out fine then gets to be 5 seconds off at the 2 hour mark.

[midiwall]

I thought I'd toss my 2 cents in here...

I'm ripping to a NAS box as well. Playback isn't as critical for me as IPopov, I'm using a pair of Kodak HomeTheater HD boxes to play back MP4's and I'm fine with that.

I too have the "progressive audio sync loss" issue that folks are talking about. I was ripping to "Apple TV" which gave me excellent video quality (again, for me it's fine) using 6.2.1.8. Something is up in the content that's throwing things off, because the sync loss doesn't happen to me all the time. It happened on The Departed and The Hurt Locker, but seems to be fine on Terminator Salvation. Maybe the copy protection engine has a memory leak that's causing corruption in the audio frame sync table? That might explain how this will happen on some (but not all) content.


Anyway, I installed 7.0.4 this morning and re-ripped The Departed using Apple TV. Still bad.

I then re-ripped it using MKV. The audio was fine, but the video encoding was poor, with jaggies and "that boxie frame sync thing" happening after a FF or REW.

I installed 6.2.2.0 before I left for work and started a rip. I won't be able to tell about audio sync until I get home.

And fwiw, 6.2.2.0 is here:


It is NOT archived at the previously mentioned archive link:

[IPopov50]

IPopov50

What do you save it as on your HDD when you go from DVD to HDD so that it can later be used for other encodings?

Well Ozzie,
the way I deal with DVDs is a bit different from what others do.
First of all, I never compress DVD to anything. Quality of DVD video bad enough as it is. (sorry, I do make some conversions for iPod, but this is different story)
So, I just taking a picture of the disc (meaning rip them on external drive as .iso). Iso is my backup.
Second of all, I'm hardcore Matroska fan. I believe MKV will be a container of choice in near future. I have two media centers setup at home where centerpiece of both is WDTV player. So, I store all my videos on external HDD connected to WDTV. All of my videos are in MKV container.

So that's why I re-packing ripped DVD iso into mkv (movie only, extras stays in iso. After all, how often you want to see deleted scenes, interviews and other crap again?). For DVDtoMKV conversion I using MakeMKV. Simple, easy, fast.

Blu-rays, that's where all your skills are needed + good hardware. That's where excitement is... DVDs are boring... and video quality sucks.

[Realnoize]

Had troubles with my installation of Windows so had to reinstall. Did a complete clean install, and the only thing I installed back are my office productivity software and an anti-virus. I haven't installed any particular driver yet, using all the ones installed by Windows 7 (seems to work ok).

I will do some new tests with DVDFab tonight, with that clean setup, to see if it was something that was on my previous setup that screwed things up (video driver, some other installed application, etc...)

If not, then it's more than probably something hardware-related. That's the only possible explanation I can see about why some people don't have any problems, and others do. And if that's the case, I don't know how we can find what type of hardware is causing the problem...

Something I'm curious about... What type of graphic card is everyone using? And what type of sound card?

I use a Nvidia GeForce 9500GT and a soundmax integrated soundboard.

And another idea that came to my mind... Could this be caused by an anti-virus software's resident shield? I think it might be worth testing with the anti-virus disabled... Will probably try that too.

[MRL_DVDFab]

Have a read of my "Best Practice: DVD to Mobile" thread. Links in my signature below.

While best practices are nice to share they do not fix this issue. DVDFab 7.X.X.X has an issue that did not exist in 6.2.2.0. There are too many other folks here indicating similar results with ver7 and various profiles and formats to think we are all not doing this correctly. I have used Fab since early ver4 and have a pretty good idea of the process to use. I have not had any significant problems creating wmv files until ver7 came along. Waiting patiently for a fix for the developers.

[Ozzie]

Just tried it myself on another laptop, this one is Windows Vista 32bit.
DVDFab version 7.0.4.0.

Same exact results when encoding region 1 to AppleTV defualt settings to mp4. The audio is just slightly off sync in the begining of the movie and progressively gets worst. I tried a 2:34 minute movie and by the end of the movie the audio was a solid 2 seconds behind the video.

[vz333]

So maybe it's something hardware related?

Anyone think using a different DVD drive might make a difference? Or maybe some part of the software which relies on hardware acceleration doesn't work well with some video cards?

I'm even tempted to install back windows XP on the same hardware to see if it makes a difference (and if it's software or hardware related). Probably won't do it, but the idea DID cross my mind...

I have been dealing with this issue for awhile now. I used to be able to rip fine, all the time. Then it stopped working. I wasn't really paying attention at the time but I believe that it was after I went to version 7.

I tried going back to various version 6s but I continued to have this problem.

So, I decided to break out a test machine and start figuring this out.

I installed a fresh copy of W7-64 and dvdfab 7. Same problem. Ditto for any earlier version. Next went to W7-32bit and went through various versions of dvdfab. All failures. Finally went to XP and still, nothing but failure.

I was absoluetly dumbfounded. So now I am suspecting hardware is an issue at least for this test machine. But I don't really know where to go from here. It used to worked on my main computer but I hardly want to wipe it clean to test with. And the hardware didn't change on this machine. So, the only thing I can think of with my main machine is that dvdfab 7 left something on my computer that prevented me from going backwards or I have something else on my computer that is just screwing up dvdfab.

So, I think that I have different issues with the two machines but I don't have any solutions thus far.

But I decided to make an account to just let you know that hardware thing could be an issue.

I am going to be going to another machine and trying it on that one after I get it set up. Can't test a lot during the week so I'll be back later when I figure something out.

[GregiBoy]

Have a read of my "Best Practice: DVD to Mobile" thread. Links in my signature below.

[Ozzie]

IPopov50

What do you save it as on your HDD when you go from DVD to HDD so that it can later be used for other encodings?

Thanks


Now back to the A/V sync issues... I have now had 6 different consecutive titles with a consistant A/V sync problem. It starts of with a slight audio lag, and by the end of the movie it is severe. This has all been with DVDFab 7.X.X.X.. I am using the standard AppleTV defualt settings to go from DVD to MP4 on a Vista OS 32bit PC.

I will now try a DVDFab 6.X.X.X and see if I get better results.

[IPopov50]

They created a backup of the DVD file structure on their HDD, and then, they used THAT, as a source in DVDFab instead of using the disc. Some reported that this worked for them. I'll check that out.

Realnoize,
Rip DVD to HDD is always good idea. That way you avoiding multiple handling during process (i.e. device buffers). It only takes one timestamp misplaced, and you've got a problem all the way from there. And time could be easily misstamped during handling from buffer to buffer.

[Realnoize]

Realnoize, have you tried 6.2.2.0? It would be useful I think to confirm that you also see it work in the older version.
Thanks!

I installed version 6.2.1.8 and I tested it with the same movie (Insomnia), and got the same result. Haven't tested it with another movie yet. Will do to be sure.

But I've read something on another site. Some people said that they had similar problems with DVDFab and found some sort of temporary solution. They created a backup of the DVD file structure on their HDD, and then, they used THAT, as a source in DVDFab instead of using the disc. Some reported that this worked for them. I'll check that out.

Also, I've found some utilities that are (suposedly) able to fix those type of a/v sync problems in AVI files. http://www.gromkov.com/faq/faq2004-0064.html. Might be worth a shot.

And from a quick search on the net, I found that the issue is quite widespread since a while already, but it doesn't seem to be related to the OS, as many experienced it on XP too, and with various versions of DVDFab. So far, I haven't found any possible cause by browsing through various AV forums...

So maybe it's something hardware related?

Anyone think using a different DVD drive might make a difference? Or maybe some part of the software which relies on hardware acceleration doesn't work well with some video cards?

I'm even tempted to install back windows XP on the same hardware to see if it makes a difference (and if it's software or hardware related). Probably won't do it, but the idea DID cross my mind...

[MRL_DVDFab]

I have the exact same issue. Any version of Fab 7, when used in Win7 32bit Ultimate, creates a file with a/v sync issues. Have tried numerous formats and profiles with the same result. I am primarily focused on wmv files but checked others once I started having problems. 7.0.4.0, 7.0.3.5 and 7.0.3.0 all have the same behavior in this win7 setup. On the same machine 6.2.2.0 works fine every time. I have now validated this against 5 movies. Very frustrating and hoping it gets corrected soon. It's not like we are dead in the water but I wouldn't like to see the issue propagated into the next release.