Announcement

**Mike_M** · 01-20-2023, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by KidJoe View Post

I'm not sure what version StreamFab this was added to, but under settings there is a UniFab tab.

I guess I'm just trying to understand all these "AI" options from Fab. Enlarger AI, UniFab, Video Enhancer AI, and if they use the same AI Engine, and give the same quality enhancement over all, or if one really does a better job than the others.

Hi KidJoe,

Those are some of the same questions, in addition to others, that came to my mind when I first saw this was included in the new release of StreamFab 6.1.0.4

*****
StreamFab 6.1.0.4 Changelog
New: Added support to use UniFab to enhance video and audio quality to 1080p and EAC3 5.1 audio quality after the download is finished.
*****

Off the top of my head were:

1. The amount of runtime it would add to a file being processed thru StreamFab if you utilized it in that process and the viability of using it in regards to series or multiple files.
2. The quality of the output
3. Whether it now makes full use of RTX Nvidia cards and other cards GPU and card features
4. Is it based on DVDFab AI Enlarger and Smoother products, which I purchased a lifetime license for, and didn't have some features of control (see attached for Unifab controls) that it really should have had that are incorporated in the product I decided to use (Topaz AI).
5. Response time and resolution on issues/problems/quality encountered by StreamFab when encountered
6. Using this for HBO Max direct website issues with resolution and Apple+ when underlying issues of DRM for these sites have still not been properly addressed.

You may have seen my post (link below), tangentially related to UniFab, under the popup topic in which I concluded I didn't want to be a Beta Tester on this product - especially with so much unknowns/questions and limited documentation available.

Popup ad killed the queue! (about new UniFab marketing popup stopping the queue)
https://forum.dvdfab.cn/forum/softwa...061#post421061

When I purchased DVDFab's AI Upscaler and Smoother Lifetime products, it was also related to the problem with purchasing I had that showed different amounts when I went to buy the product ($69) at DVDFab.cn on my screen vs. what I was actually charged ($129) thru invoice 3rd party and my Visa that Mona had to test and resulted in a refund to me a few months ago.

After testing DVDFAb's AI Enlarger/Smoother I determined that:

It did not have sufficient controls nor different models found in other products
It's processing time took a long time depending of file vs Topaz AI
Resulted in a lesser quality file than Topaz AI

You can only run one instance of DVDFab (although it could be with multiple files), whereas with Topaz AI I can run 2 or 3 instances (each batch processing multiple files) on with my best machine's configuration which decreases the runtime for multiple files without effecting my ability to do other things like download concurrently with StreamFab/Competitor, using Chrome or other browsers or other software products.

Topaz AI also just released their latest update this week that now utilizes my RTX 3080ti/RTX 2070 Super cards GPU more efficiently and card abilities (such as Full Frame Stabilization & TensorRT models on NVIDIA machines) with runtime decreased to about 1/3 of the previous release of their 3.0.. product, that was already faster than when I processed the same file thru DVDFab's AI Enlarger & Smoother products and got a lesser quality output.

I also am skeptical about using this in the StreamFab downloading process when you have the queue, multiple movies, series, etc.. to consider and problem resolution time/response by StreamFab/DVDFab.

The directing of output to specific directories for sub 1080p files from StreamFab that I currently do and *then* processing for enhancement/upscaling with Topaz AI is working fine and allows greater flexibility and control over the process without introducing new elements to StreamFab that could probably increase the runtime and result in more issues.

I can just imagine posting in this forum/or another about errors, issues or quality encountered with various files and the response time/resolution I could expect to such a problem.

Anyway, I'm sure there's some other things I haven't mentioned, but these are some of them.

Buying, testing, comparing UniFab (in or out of StreamFab) during a trial period would be a major process and time commitment on my part that I am not willing to do right now especially with consideration of having paid for DVDFab's AI Upscaler/Smoother products that ended up not using due their inefficiencies, runtime and lack of models and other controls.

Mike

US - CST, No VPN - Win 10/64 Pro & Win 11/64Pro, RTX 3080ti & RTX 2070 Super
StreamFab Lifetime, Competitor Lifetime, DVDFab Lifetime , Topaz AI for enhancing/upscaling

Attached Files

**KidJoe** · 01-20-2023, 03:56 PM

Mike_M I've thought about other products, etc.. BUT for my limited use (I have a hand full of DVD movies that aren't available on streaming or bluray), and one or two blurays that aren't available on 4K. So the price points, and even just having a cost, for the other tools has kept me from buying anything else.

I'm curious how much "better" these tools make the video look, compared to the upscaling my TV does during play back.

To date, even though I purchased AI Enlarger, there is only 1 bluray I've tried with. and one or two TV show DVDs. Results were ok. I mean, not mind blowing, and it was hard to tell a difference between the "Enlarger AI" output vs playing the original and letting the TV upscale. With my RTX3060 (12gig) with FAB Enlarger AI to enlarge that 1080p Bluray to 4K (Custom MVK Enlarger AI, High Quality, Premium Quality, 1 Pass, keep same frame rate, etc, copy audio and copy/remux subs) takes about 9hrs per 1hr of footage (2.4 to 2.6 FPS).

Playback was via Shield Pro (2019) to Sony 77A80J OLED. I also tried the source material with Shield Pro's AI Enlarger feature enabled and disabled.

**KidJoe** · 01-20-2023, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Mike_M View Post

....
4. Is it based on DVDFab AI Enlarger and Smoother products, which I purchased a lifetime license for, and didn't have some features of control (see attached for Unifab controls) that it really should have had that are incorporated in the product I decided to use (Topaz AI)....

Based on your screen shot, I saw most (if not all) of those settings using Enlarger AI (I have it running now to test since I haven't used it in a while, so I can't add a screen shot at the moment).

Quality, codec, resolution, frame rate are there as drop downs. Bit Rate is there, it seems to change with the Bit Per pixel slider (if I recall correctly), as does the size indicator.

I do not recall seeing Encoding Method (CBR/VBR) in Enlarger AI. The Bluray I am trying to upscale is Variable bit rate. So is the output from Enlarger AI. I'm not sure if Enlarger AI just uses the same as source for this, or puts everything out at VBR. I'll have to find a CBR bluray and see what happens with Enlarger AI.

**Mike_M** · 01-20-2023, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by KidJoe View Post

Mike_M

1. So the price points, and even just having a cost, for the other tools has kept me from buying anything else.

2. I'm curious how much "better" these tools make the video look, compared to the upscaling my TV does during play back.

3. To date, even though I purchased AI Enlarger, there is only 1 bluray I've tried with. and one or two TV show DVDs. Results were ok. I mean, not mind blowing, and it was hard to tell a difference between the "Enlarger AI" output vs playing the original and letting the TV upscale. With my RTX3060 (12gig) with FAB Enlarger AI to enlarge that 1080p Bluray to 4K (Custom MVK Enlarger AI, High Quality, Premium Quality, 1 Pass, keep same frame rate, etc, copy audio and copy/remux subs) takes about 9hrs per 1hr of footage.

Playback was via Shield Pro (2019) to Sony 77A80J OLED. I also tried the source material with Shield Pro's AI Enlarger feature enabled and disabled.

(above edited by me for response)

Hiya KidJoe,

1. I purchased Topaz AI for a total of $135 (with tax) a few months ago during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales/and also used a discount coupon for Topaz...

2. I haven't upscaled any Blu Ray's just used with older sub 720p and 720p files to 1080p, in addition to DVD's.

The quality different between Topaz AI vs DVDFab's AI Enlarger/Smoother is dramatic, with Topaz AI winning hand's down.

Topaz AI was already faster, depending on the models and enhancement settings used and a few movies I upscaled last night took about 1/3 the time after this week's update.

Plus it's especially nice to be able to run 2 instances (my comfortable amount) of Topaz AI at the same time for series or multiple files that I previously got at sub 1080p at the same time both in batch mode for even more reduced runtime.

(each of the 2 concurrent processes runs slower than if you ran only one process, but the two running at the same time vs running sequentially with 1 process results in overall less runtime)

I've seen some examples of what other people have did with higher than 1080p upscaling and they've looked *very* impressive.

3. What movie/source was that Blu Ray? - I could possibly run it thru Topaz with some different models for comparison ofr quality/runtime.

I have an older TV that does do upscaling but initially run files thru Roku Ultra's upscaling via it's USB port - I can also pop the 16TB drive backups (have 5 right now) of all my movies on my main system that I have into the USB docking station to Roku Ultra for quick/easy access in Living Room/Bedroom for all my stored content.

Mike

**KidJoe** · 01-20-2023, 04:30 PM

The added time to enhance the files with UniFab after download is a concern. As well as the work flow, and does it keep the originally downloaded file when its done, or just UniFab "enhanced" output file?

In other words:

How long does it take? If it takes the 9hrs per 1hour I see with this Blu-ray to 4K using Enlarger AI, that could be an issue when I'm downloading. Ok, maybe 720p -> 1080p takes less time (I'll try that at some point with FAB Enlarger AI, but it will still add time.

The workflow matters... Does it download them all, then start enhancing them with UniFab?

Keeping the original file, so like download a 720p.MKV, upgrade to 1080p.MKV... do I end up with 720p and 1080p MKV's? or does the original 720p get deleted. Retaining the original file takes up drive space, BUT keeping them could aide in trouble shooting if there are video issues. You'd be able to determine if the issues are seen before the enhancement step.

**Mike_M** · 01-20-2023, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by KidJoe View Post

Based on your screen shot, I saw most (if not all) of those settings using Enlarger AI (I have it running now to test since I haven't used it in a while, so I can't add a screen shot at the moment).

Quality, codec, resolution, frame rate are there as drop downs. Bit Rate is there, it seems to change with the Bit Per pixel slider (if I recall correctly), as does the size indicator.

I do not recall seeing Encoding Method (CBR/VBR) in Enlarger AI. The Bluray I am trying to upscale is Variable bit rate. So is the output from Enlarger AI. I'm not sure if Enlarger AI just uses the same as source for this, or puts everything out at VBR. I'll have to find a CBR bluray and see what happens with Enlarger AI.

Hi KidJoe,

You are comparing Enlarger AI to UniFab...

I was actually commenting on DVDFab's AI Enlarger/Smoother and comparing it's lack of sophistication, controls and abilities to Topaz AI.

"4. Is it based on DVDFab AI Enlarger and Smoother products, which I purchased a lifetime license for, and didn't have some features of control (see attached for Unifab controls) that it really should have had that are incorporated in the product I decided to use (Topaz AI)...."

Such as several different AI Models and fine controls:

Proteus Fine-Tune Model Example

Original Pixel type vs Square for output
Side by side comparison of input vs output file viewing

Previewing:

One window (resulting output per your settings), Side by side (input/before vs output/selections)

You can choose *multiple* (4) models and test preview the resulting file/outputs in a 4x4 viewing window when ran thru each model for comparison

Stabilization
Motion Deblur
Frame interpolation (creates new frames for FPS conversion speed x controls/slow mo, etc..)
You can add grain (toggles for number of grain & size of grain)
On model settings you can go with Auto, Relative to Auto or Manual for below settings

Manual for above model has toggle controls for settings

Revert Compression 1-100
Recover details 1-100
Sharpen 1-100
Reduce Noise 1-100
DeHalo 1-100
Anti Alias Deblur 1-100
Add Noise 1-100

Encoder choices to use:

ProRes 422 LT
ProRes 422 HQ
H264 High (Nvidia)
H265 Main (Nvidia)
H254 High (Intel)
H265 Main (Intel)
H265 Main 10 (Intel)
VP9 Good
VP9 Best
Tiff Lossless 8bit
Tiff Lossless 16bit
PNG 8bit
PNG 16bit
JPEG 8bit
EXR

Container choices of MOV, MKV or MP4

Bitrate MB/s choices range (various ... 8, 12, 16, 24, 40, 60, 120, 180)

On movies I really like and want the get the best quality on, I can run estimates that will calculate the above settings for movies at multiple times in the movie (one at a time), put in spreadsheet and average them & I use *that* as the setting for above under manual.

I get great results doing that.

It's ability to run multiple instances in batch mode and it's better utilization of my RTX cards GPU/abilities and reduced speed of processing are noteworthy when working doing conversions of previously stored content I had that was sub 1080p and especially series (both old & new).

Mike

**KidJoe** · 01-20-2023, 07:01 PM

sorry, my replies were disconnected there... Its during the work day so my day job was demanding attention and I couldn't finish but posted so I didn't lose it....

Anyway....
Blu-ray is Avatar Extended Collectors Edition. TV Show was Three's Company and Hogan's Heroes.

Yes, post Special was talking about UniFab enhancement vs Enlarger AI as I don't have Topaz or other product yet, but more importantly how UniFab works or might work with StreamFab. And I thought you were saying UniFab had settings that Enlarger AI didn't. I guess I misunderstood you.

I didn't purchase Topaz because even at $135 (I don't remember if I saw it that low), I'm not sure I'll get enough use out of it to justify the expense. Now that its still on sale, but not nearly down to that $135 number, its even harder to justify. I'm more just "dabbling" in upscaling, not serious enough to spend that much money which I could use towards a better case for my Plex server (so I can stop using external USB drives, and bring them internal. I have 6x8TB, 6x14TB, and 9x4TB, (although I am preparing to remove the 4TB pool because some of those drives are more than 6 years old and have been in use with Storage Spaces and Plex since then. I want to be running with just the pools made of the 8tb/14tb drives), or better Mobo/CPU/Memory (since my plex server is an i7-8700K/Z370 board/32gig DDR4 ram).

Even my 1080p TV's do an amazing job upscaling 480p and 720p content to 1080p, as do my 4K TVs. Most who come and watch something can't tell when its a 720p, 1080p or 4K source on our three 4K Sony's. Now 480p TV from Comcrap is easier to see that its a low res source, and usually I can't watch it, but DVD's are upscaled good enough that they are always watchable, even on the 77 inch. I've been a Fan of higher level Sony's for years because of this. Contrast that to my friends who have Samsung, LG, TCL and other brand TVs. Their TV's do a horrible job with upscaling content to the TV's native resolution, its easy to tell and not always watchable. Maybe they just get the "middle of the road" TV's? Maybe high end is better? (LG C1 and C2 are supposed to be good sets) But still.

I wouldn't say the Roku Ultra does a bad job upscaling. Just that I notice video quality differences playing back the same files on the same TV between my Fire TV 4K and 4KMax sticks vs Roku Ultra (4760 and 4800), and the Shield Pro (2019). The Fire TV and Shield give a noticeably better picture. I mainly use my Rokus for the Xfinity Stream app to save the cable box rental fee

(stream app was out for the Rokus long before it was out for Fire TV so I started picking up Rokus just for that reason). And the Roku Ultra's 100meg ethernet port limits it for 4K rips that I don't recompress. Now that i upgraded my home wifi (Asus AiMesh) I should try switching to 5ghz wifi and see if its any better.

Announcement

UniFab AI Enhancement under settings?

UniFab AI Enhancement under settings?

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