Specify H265 format profile/level?

AnttDvdFab

Hello -

HDR10 content downloaded from Netflix does not play back smoothly on my local hard wired devices streaming from my Plex server, so I'm investigating. This is not a new issue - has been ongoing for years.

Used Warcraft as an example since I own the UHD disk to rip and can currently download it on multiple services.

Of all of these files, only the highlighted ones have issues.
- Since it doesn't show up, MediaInfo for the MP4 version says Main 10@L4@Main.

Just some notes:
- My rips using DVDFab are setting --high-tier, so their profile is Main 10@L5.1@High.
- There is no HDR metadata in the AV1 or VP9 files from NF, and Amazon doesn't have HDR either. They work so HDR seems to be the issue.
- Given I can play MUCH higher bitrate HDR files with no issues it smells like the issue may be the profile Main 10@L4@Main.
- From a quick scan, DoVi/HDR10 compatible content downloaded from Max is Main 10@L4.1@Main and that content (both in 1080p and 4K) plays smoothly.

Should I give up on HDR from Netflix since it has issues for me and switch to AV1 or VP9 so I at least get Atmos and don't have to deal with having to re-encode H264 so I have decent compression?

I'm pretty sure that it is the provider that sets the profile and levels, but just in case it can be controlled by SF I thought I'd ask you folks.

Anyone know of any tools with a GUI that will automate migration to L4.1 or L5.1 keeping HDR metadata as a test? Thinking out load, I might be able to use DVDFab Converter and just pass in the extra parameters to change the profile...

Thanks!!

october262

Hello -

HDR10 content downloaded from Netflix does not play back smoothly on my local hard wired devices streaming from my Plex server, so I'm investigating. This is not a new issue - has been ongoing for years.

Used Warcraft as an example since I own the UHD disk to rip and can currently download it on multiple services.

Of all of these files, only the highlighted ones have issues.
- Since it doesn't show up, MediaInfo for the MP4 version says Main 10@L4@Main.

Just some notes:
- My rips using DVDFab are setting --high-tier, so their profile is Main 10@L5.1@High.
- There is no HDR metadata in the AV1 or VP9 files from NF, and Amazon doesn't have HDR either. They work so HDR seems to be the issue.
- Given I can play MUCH higher bitrate HDR files with no issues it smells like the issue may be the profile Main 10@L4@Main.
- From a quick scan, DoVi/HDR10 compatible content downloaded from Max is Main 10@L4.1@Main and that content (both in 1080p and 4K) plays smoothly.

Should I give up on HDR from Netflix since it has issues for me and switch to AV1 or VP9 so I at least get Atmos and don't have to deal with having to re-encode H264 so I have decent compression?

I'm pretty sure that it is the provider that sets the profile and levels, but just in case it can be controlled by SF I thought I'd ask you folks.

Anyone know of any tools with a GUI that will automate migration to L4.1 or L5.1 keeping HDR metadata as a test? Thinking out load, I might be able to use DVDFab Converter and just pass in the extra parameters to change the profile...

Thanks!!
AnttDvdFab

Plex server - HDR10 content does not play back smoothly

Plex server issues with HDR10 content playback can be frustrating. Here are some potential solutions to help you resolve the problem:

Check your Plex Media Server version: Ensure that your Plex Media Server is running on a compatible version, specifically 20.04 or later, as mentioned in the ‘HDR to SDR Tone Mapping’ snippet. This feature supports all video produced in HDR10, or in other formats that are backwards-compatible with HDR10 (including HDR10+ and DoVi content).
Verify your hardware: HDR10 playback requires a powerful system, especially for 4K HEVC videos. If your computer is not equipped with a suitable processor and graphic cards, you may experience playback issues.
Adjust your Plex settings: Check your Plex settings for the ‘Maximum Remote Quality’ and ‘Local Quality’ options. Ensure that they are set to a suitable level for your internet connection and hardware capabilities.
Consider transcoding: If your system is struggling to play back 4K content in real-time, consider transcoding the video to a lower resolution. This can be done using third-party software or by converting the video to a compatible format.
Check for software transcoding: If your system is using software transcoding to perform tone mapping, it may struggle to convert 4K content in real-time. In this case, consider upgrading your hardware or using a more powerful system.

AnttDvdFab

Plex server - HDR10 content does not play back smoothly
october262

Thank you for the response, but I'm well aware of what the Plex support site says about playback. That isn't the problem. The problem is that only HDR content from Netflix doesn't play back properly. If it's from Max - it works fine. If it is from UHD Rips with MUCH higher bitrates - it works fine. The only difference that I can see between media from these sources is the H265 profile format.

That is why I'm looking for ways to either control the profile as it is being downloaded or suggestions on ways to re-encode or re-mux these files to change the profile/

I haven't found a setting in SF to control level
I don't see a way in DVDFab to change level, though adding additional parameters may work.
- I just found this page and think I'm on to something. https://www.dvdfab.cn/tips/custom-h264-h265-specs.htm
- -P/--profile Enforce an encode profile: main, main10, mainstillpicture
  --level-idc Force a minimum required decoder level (as '5.0' or '50')
  --[no-]high-tier If a decoder level is specified, this modifier selects High tier of that level

fabuloustream

It works fine for me. However, the lower bitrates seems to have artifacts/blur but not for the highest bitrate. Make sure to also grab the required codec. Even Netflix doc mentions that you'll need the to grab the HEVC video extension from the Microsoft Store for Windows 10 and Windows 11 but it cost $0.99

https://www.microsoft.com/store/productId/9NMZLZ57R3T7?

Who knows? Maybe Netflix will phase out HEVC due to infringement. https://www.broadcom.com/company/news/product-releases/61711

AnttDvdFab

It works fine for me. However, the lower bitrates seems to have artifacts/blur but not for the highest bitrate. Make sure to also grab the required codec. Even Netflix doc mentions that you'll need the to grab the HEVC video extension from the Microsoft Store for Windows 10 and Windows 11 but it cost $0.99
fabuloustream

These files are stored on HDDs in a PC turned NAS and served via Plex to devices around my house, so it isn't the codec. My 1st gen Apple TV 4K seems to be the problem. All of the Google TVs and Roku TVs play HDR content downloaded from Netflix fine. This afternoon I re-encoded the video downloaded from Netflix to the 5.1 profile using DVDFab.
That fixed the issue, so I guess I just run Netflix HDR content through a post-processor routine until I can upgrade to a 3rd gen Apple TV 4K.

The specs really don't appear to differ all that much between models
- 1st Gen: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111929
- 3rd Gen: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111839

Bottom line - issue "solved" for me as re-encoding Netflix HDR content to profile 5.1 at least means I can watch the content.

Now, how can I mark this as closed.

MrKrawk

I got tired of the issues of Plex server and the resources required for recodes. I ended up buying a Dune media player for my TV and it plays just about everything natively, including AV1 and VP9 without the recodes. There are multiple "China boxes" out there, I just ended up with this one because on the web sites themselves they state what it can do. I tried inquiring with a few other brands but they never replied to my inquiries.

AGuyWithAComputer

My 1st gen Apple TV 4K seems to be the problem. All of the Google TVs and Roku TVs play HDR content downloaded from Netflix fine.
AnttDvdFab

It's possible that the Apple TV 4K does not support the format, or at least the plex client on it does not think it does. Check to see if your PMS is transcoding the video when playing back on that client. If it's transcoding, your system may not be powerful enough to do HDR to SDR tone mapping during transcoding.

A fairly recent update to PMS when Ubuntu 24.04 was released changed how PMS handles HEVC files. It'll now direct play/stream if the client supports it (and the bandwidth is high enough for remote clients) instead of defaulting to transcoding HEVC/H265 to H264.

AnttDvdFab

It's possible that the Apple TV 4K does not support the format, or at least the plex client on it does not think it does. Check to see if your PMS is transcoding the video when playing back on that client. If it's transcoding, your system may not be powerful enough to do HDR to SDR tone mapping during transcoding.

A fairly recent update to PMS when Ubuntu 24.04 was released changed how PMS handles HEVC files. It'll now direct play/stream if the client supports it (and the bandwidth is high enough for remote clients) instead of defaulting to transcoding HEVC/H265 to H264.
AGuyWithAComputer

It isn't transcoding, it's doing direct stream/play. My server is powerful enough for transcoding (Core i9 9900K w/ 8 cores and 48 GB of ram). That's actually what I have to do to make it play smoothly - I have to tell it to transcode. It is some incompatibility between the Apple TV/its supported codecs/or the App and what profile Netflix uses to encode their HDR content.

The point of this post was to find alternate ways to change the profile of content while it was being downloaded instead of having to post-process it because ALL HDR content from NF has the issue and no other HDR content from any source ever glitches. Re-encoding the files after download and keeping HDR and original quality is just another 10-15 minutes I'd rather not spend.

I do appreciate the comment, though.

october262

It isn't transcoding, it's doing direct stream/play. My server is powerful enough for transcoding (Core i9 9900K w/ 8 cores and 48 GB of ram). That's actually what I have to do to make it play smoothly - I have to tell it to transcode. It is some incompatibility between the Apple TV/its supported codecs/or the App and what profile Netflix uses to encode their HDR content.

The point of this post was to find alternate ways to change the profile of content while it was being downloaded instead of having to post-process it because ALL HDR content from NF has the issue and no other HDR content from any source ever glitches. Re-encoding the files after download and keeping HDR and original quality is just another 10-15 minutes I'd rather not spend.

I do appreciate the comment, though.
AnttDvdFab

for Netflix encoding, i found this - Dolby Vision

Set of technologies by Dolby Laboratories

According to the search results, Netflix uses Dolby Vision to encode their HDR content. Dolby Vision is a set of technologies by Dolby Laboratories that helps maintain creative intent from the image seen in the color grading suite all the way to the consumer devices being used to watch Netflix.

AnttDvdFab

for Netflix encoding, i found this - Dolby Vision

Set of technologies by Dolby Laboratories

According to the search results, Netflix uses Dolby Vision to encode their HDR content. Dolby Vision is a set of technologies by Dolby Laboratories that helps maintain creative intent from the image seen in the color grading suite all the way to the consumer devices being used to watch Netflix.
october262

I'm not sure that quote tells me anything, but it doesn't apply to downloads, which for HEVC they offer in DV (with HDR10 compatibility) and plain HDR10 - or at least SF allows me to download those streams.

This is 100% an issue with Netflix and their HEVC content when played on the 1st generation Apple TV 4K. That device just can't handle profile L4@Main. I did some testing and another app - Infuse - that I suspect connects to my Plex server via DLNA and it also has the same problem playing both the HDR10 and DV versions of the same movies downloaded from NF.

I just need to upgrade to the newest version of the Apple TV device and hope it supports that profile. Or I can just watch NF HDR content using any number of other TVs in the house where things "just work".

Getthebuzz

I got tired of the issues of Plex server and the resources required for recodes. I ended up buying a Dune media player for my TV and it plays just about everything natively, including AV1 and VP9 without the recodes. There are multiple "China boxes" out there, I just ended up with this one because on the web sites themselves they state what it can do. I tried inquiring with a few other brands but they never replied to my inquiries.
MrGrackle

I'm intrigued. I had assumed that 4k rips would work as well as Blu-ray HD rips on Plex, but clearly they don't. Which box did you go with, and what kind of media server software do I need to run on my NAS? Thanks.