Hard Drive Media Players

[Dwyreaux]

I apologize if a similar thread exists out there but I was unable to locate it so I though I'd post my question here. Please feel free to merge this with an existing thread if one exists.

I was wanting to know about Hard drive media players. I was surfing through the forum today and learned about them just today. I can't seem to find a lot of good information from googling so I thought I'd ask you guys who have experience.

I have seen reference to WD TV a few times and seems to be the most popular out there. But I have also seen where people say they prefer media players with hard drives built-in instead of through USB 2.0 connections.

I guess my question is, what are the drawbacks to not having a built-in HDD and what features should I look for in a HDD media player? I know some play different formats. Do they support chapters in all formats?

Also, what about the user interface of each? Someone who has used these please let me know which are easy to use and which ones have attractive designs?

Again, I know these are a lot of questions, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[GregiBoy]

Try searching the forum for WDTV as quite a lot has been written on this lately (especially by me). "SEARCH" is your friend !!!!

After that research, feel free to ask any further questions.

[Dwyreaux]

I disagree with the ISO being the way to go. Why would I want to store up to 9Gb of garbage that uses an outdated video codec when I can store it a close as dammit to the same quality using a newer more efficient codec eg: generic.h264.avi. audiocopy profile.

And before we start a flame war about quality, I have had at least 50 opinions on these files played on my Samsung 52" HDTV (LA52A850) and not one of my friends can pick the difference between the H264 file and the original DVD.

Unless you are an absolute videophile, I think that is the way to go but I am underwhelmed with the WDTV and as you have said, Complication, there are plenty of other devices out there with better features.

I did as you said and read (and reread in some cases). Could you lead me in the right direction as to which devices you are referring to? You said you were underwhelmed by the WDTV, does that include the newer WDTV Live? Seems like they fixed some things with that one.

In that thread you also state that you like devices with hard drives built in, any direction to give there? I'm not great at researching devices from lesser known brands, so it makes researching new technology a bit of a crap shoot. If you have had any good experience with some brands or devices, I would appreciate the knowledge.

In another thread, you told someone how to get 2 channel audio. These devices do support multichannel audio, yes? I tend to be of the type that enjoy the bonus features and menus, chapter breaks, etc.... what is the best format for my desired results? And which player would you recommend for those best results as well?

Thanks again!

[GregiBoy]

To be quite honest, I prefer the "Network Media Tank" class of player such as the Popcorn Hour and there are many versions/models available and I would always go for one that could have a hard disk installed internally.

Use that as your google search criterea. I cannot really comment on what is available in the US but I actually import devices in Oz from www.midte.com and www.szweitu.com and have had great success with these. Maybe you can find an importer locally.

You clearly need to check out the connectivity of any device and on the 2 channel front, most devices that I have tested, there is a "Downmix 5.1 to 2 channel" option so I encode all my files with 5.1 and if necessary when connecting to a TV or A/V system with only 2 channel input, turn this on.

[Dwyreaux]

After having done some more homework I now understand more about what you are saying with the network media tank class of players. They do offer a host of abilities and having an internal HDD is a good way to utilize a lot of the online features.

I guess a big concern of mine is that it seems like the user interface for these systems seems a bit primitive or basic. The extent of my experience with media servers goes back to the Kaleidescaoe days. This most closely resembles the Escient interface with graphical representation of the movies on the server by using cover art and the MediData for the files. Does the NMT have this that I have not seen yet? Or do you know of a device that does have similar user interface functionality?

I know I keep going back to the WD TV Live, but it seems to be, from what I can tell, attempting to recreate the best features of the NMT without the built-in HDD. It also seems to be leaning towards the graphical interface of the higher-end media servers of old? Does anyone know this to be true, or am I misinterpreting something along the way?

Does anyone know of any other solutions that resemble the interface and functionality that I am referring to?

[Complication]

The WDTV does not support DVD Menus in an ISO yet and there is no word on the WDTV Live support but the dominion are hopeful:

http://wdtvhd.com/index.php?showtopic=1201

The Popcorn Hour (PCH) brand NMT devices do not require a hard drive. I use one in the bedroom to silently stream content. NMT plays almost everything (including DVD Menus from a ripped DVD directory or ISO) but is not as polished a device as your typical consumer device. Firmware updates fix things now and again but certain bugs remain (ex. NFS access of subdirectories).

I'm not sure how important quality is to you, but most of these devices have the same internal chip(s) that handle the decode and upscale. The only downside is that they do not upscale as well as the PS3 or Oppo (DVD player not media streamer). It looks like these devices simply take the SD video and expand it to fit in the 1080 space so any blockiness in the source material will be amplified. The better upscalers will smooth the lines so that the image looks sharper than it really is.

It seems that devices designed to be DVD upscalers do a much better job than those designed to be simple media players. Unfortunately, the PS3 does not play all the formats like the NMT does, will not connect to simple SMB or NFS shares, and has no way to stream a DVD Menu to it. For simple picture quality enjoyment the PS3 is a joy to watch streaming video on. I'm still on the lookout for a device that upscales like the PS3 and plays everything from everywhere like the NMT (throw in Netflix streaming support and I'll probably burst with excitement). However, I haven't tried or researched the latest PCH device that allows a Blu-Ray drive to be installed.

[GregiBoy]

Hi Complication,

As I have said before, I do not let any of my devices upscale as I think the $4000 TV does a better job.

As far as the interfaces, I'm more concerned with how the device plays the files rather than album art and all that sort of stuff.

So long as the device will allow me to navigate easily to a filename where I can press the "PLAY" button, I regard the other bell & whistles as superfluous.

[Complication]

As I have said before, I do not let any of my devices upscale as I think the $4000 TV does a better job.

I hadn't come across an upscaling TV yet. My old-school idea of a TV is that it faithfully represent what is being sent to it, good or bad. I feel the same way about my speakers.

I guess having that feature on your TV turned on all the time may make errors in the source content much less noticeable for you. This may explain why you and I disagree on the merits of DVD source material converted to H264. For me the compression errors are annoyingly distracting. On the other hand, I think Blu-Ray is over priced for what you get compared to DVD quality.

As far as the interfaces, I'm more concerned with how the device plays the files rather than album art and all that sort of stuff.

So long as the device will allow me to navigate easily to a filename where I can press the "PLAY" button, I regard the other bell & whistles as superfluous.

I understand your position, but I'm not sure how it relates to the OP.

[GregiBoy]

From this statement of his:-

"I guess a big concern of mine is that it seems like the user interface for these systems seems a bit primitive or basic."

It appears to me that he wants a bells & whistles UI.

[Complication]

From this statement of his:-

"I guess a big concern of mine is that it seems like the user interface for these systems seems a bit primitive or basic."

It appears to me that he wants a bells & whistles UI.

So what you are saying is that this...

As far as the interfaces, I'm more concerned with how the device plays the files rather than album art and all that sort of stuff.

So long as the device will allow me to navigate easily to a filename where I can press the "PLAY" button, I regard the other bell & whistles as superfluous.

...should be interpreted as "you care about the UI but I don't." How is that useful as "moderator" of the discussion? I can understand if he asked "should I be worried about the UI?", but he didn't. While the UI is not all that important to me either, I try to keep in mind that a pleasing UI (or some other feature) might be important to someone else. Maybe you were trying to say, "UI is not important to me so I don't really know which devices have good UI," but that isn't the way it came across to me.

My apologies to the OP for being so off topic. Hopefully we have managed to actually answer your questions along the way.

[GregiBoy]

No, i don't think that is what I was trying to say !

What I think I was trying to say is:-

In my opinion, the major factor that I would use in choosing any media player is that it plays the media files correctly and has all the connectivity options that I want whilst any bells & whistles UI should be of secondary importance.

Hope that clarifies my point of view.

[Complication]

While the UI is not all that important to me either, I try to keep in mind that a pleasing UI (or some other feature) might be important to someone else.

In my opinion, the major factor that I would use in choosing any media player is that it plays the media files correctly and has all the connectivity options that I want whilst any bells & whistles UI should be of secondary importance.

So if I rephrase this in terms of what you are trying to tell the OP:

While you say that UI is important, this is a mistake. It should really only be of secondary importance to you.

I'm not sure on what basis you make this argument as a good fit for the OP. Maybe device UI is not as intuitive for him as for you and I. Maybe he also doesn't like poorly designed remote controls (another PCH issue). Maybe aesthetically pleasing UI is very import to him and he should actually be considering the *cough* AppleTV *cough*.

In your defense, I will say that you obviously have a lot of experience with DVDFab and devote a great deal of time helping people here (especially the people unable to do the most basic of forum searches first). For that I commend you.

[Dwyreaux]

Ok so in order to possibly mediate a potential argument by some very senior members of this forum I will make a quick comment...

#1, I see the reason for leaning towards the PCH and other Networked Media Tank machines. There's hardly anything they cannot do. My only issue that I can tell is that the UI is text based and not graphical based. The biggest reason this is a concern of mine is for my fiance. I have a nearly 4000 disc collection on backed up discs because they do not have the box art, etc. So I know even if I make this a more streamlined process by introducing a media server, if it is just text based, she will still not conform.

#2, In my very limited experience with media servers, I have encountered very high end consumer level equipment. So my views of this subject are a bit skewed. I know the functionality of these high-end devices, what I'm trying to figure out is, what, if any, is a lower cost alternative to the machines I have dealt with before, and carry many of the same features and functions? I didn't know the first thing about media servers before reading on this forum and through this thread. So that's why I'm asking some fairly basic questions.

#3, Relating to #2, I don't really know the differences between many of the choices for media servers out there? Do the NMTs do better playback quality or is it just that they can play a greater variety of file formats? Does not having a built in HDD place some at a disadvantage from other? If so, what? What are the limitations to each suggestion mentioned in this thread: NMTs, WD TV, Apple TV, etc.? I'm the kind of person who likes to do as much homework on the subject before making a purchase.

#4, Just so you guys know exactly what I'm intending to use the media server for: I am the type person who loves the special features and menus, so originally I was intending to place the entire disc on the server and find one that can play menus and the whole bit. However, the more I thought about it, I decided that I just wanted the movie on the server. If I want to watch the special features, I can still pull out the disc. So with that in mind, I want a media server that can play most file extensions. I would like it to show the cover art or poster art (see #1 above). I would like it to play as many audio types as possible. Now I will have this connected to a A/V receiver that can decode all audio file types, so I don't know if this makes a difference as far as passthrough goes. Likewise with subtitles, I would like to be able to have the option to select subtitles if the need arises. Again, this may be more of an encoding issue than a media server issue. Lastly, I would like it to play at 1080p. Right now I won't start by placing Blu-ray disc files on there, but I definitely see that as being a good possibility in the very near future. I guess alone with that, it needs to be able to play Blu-ray encoded files, whichever file extension that may be.

After I get some of these issues addressed, I will most definitely come back here and ask what file conversion format I should use to get the results I desire. I would like to have the full audio track and subtitle track options with just the main movie and have the picture quality as close to, if not exactly the same as on the discs.

Since I currently have a PS3 and Xbox 360, I am going to see how these work as Media Extenders. What are the major drawbacks to using either of these for my intentions?

Sorry this was a long message, just wanted to clarify a few things so that You guys can best address my situation. Thanks for all of the help with this!

[Dwyreaux]

Also, if there are any other features that I have missed in my desired features that you think I might be interested in, please feel free to ask if it is important to me. As of right now, streaming from YouTube and things like that are not a huge issue.

[Complication]

Ok so in order to possibly mediate a potential argument by some very senior members of this forum I will make a quick comment... [emphasis added]

Hey, I'm starting to resent... uh.... resemble that remark.

My only issue that I can tell is that the UI is text based and not graphical based. The biggest reason this is a concern of mine is for my fiance. I have a nearly 4000 disc collection on backed up discs because they do not have the box art, etc. So I know even if I make this a more streamlined process by introducing a media server, if it is just text based, she will still not conform.

This will be the most difficult (read expensive) problem to solve in my experience. Apple may have something available using AppleTV and converting to MP4 but I don't know too much about it. Microsoft is capable of a solution using a Media Center PC connected to a Windows Home Server (WHS) like this:

Adding your DVD Library to a Windows Media Center PC with Windows Home Server on a Friday night

Again, I'm not sure what you will need to do to get the correct box cover art into the WHS but it is certainly possible. I also don't know if the WHS route would ever allow you to compress the DVD to a different file format to save space. About 4-6G x 4000 DVDs is a lot of storage but you can probably use multiple WHS devices ("... and this is my server for comedies" ).

Maybe one day they will improve DNLA some day to include extra meta information on the titles so that browsing can have a better UI.

I too have the problem of my wife being unable to pick a movie based on text and we don't even keep the movies on the server after she has watched them unless it is one of her favourites. I've been thinking about adding some kind of WIKI on the network so she can scroll through the movies to pick one with cover art and synopsis. Unfortunately, the cover art is not enough for her to remember the movie and decide if she wishes to watch it. I buy the movies when they are on sale and cheap and they may sit on the server for a couple of years if she said I have to wait to watch it with her.