Cinavia......just a thought.......

[beavis71cox]

So, I seem to remember, being able to split a full DVD into chapters, and it had seamless viewing upon playback. You could play the full movie, chapter after chapter, with no skipping. Can this be done with blurays?

Because, and if I'm not mistaken, Cinavia needs the full 20 minutes in order to isolate the algorithm. But what happens if the movie is 15 minutes? It doesn't have the time to decode the algorithm.

So then, what if the detection algorithm is forced to start over every 10-15 minutes, because a movie is chapterized, or the audio time code is somehow reset every so many minutes, within the movie. Is that even possible?

Cinavia needs a long time to decipher the algorithm, so what if we rob it of what it needs. What if we seamlessly chapterize a bluray movie. If the new chapter starts in say, 10 minutes, the algorithm has to start over, because it's watching a new "movie", so to speak.


Just a thought.

[90312]

No they just give you 20 mins. To get good and interested in the movie and then cut the sound, it's pure evil I tell you!

[beavis71cox]

No, I'm sorry, but I DID read somewhere, possibly the companies own documents, that state the algorithm actually takes 15-20 because of the way the algorithm is read. I'll try to find that link and post it.



Also, I must ask, how does it know that is a copy? For example, if I make a 1:1 copy, the copy should be exactly identical to the first, right? So how does the cinavia, in the player, know the difference? After all, the embedded cinavia audio is on the main disc, and gets played in the player. But somehow, the player "hears" the difference between the original, and the copy. How can that be? If we can figure the trigger, maybe that is the key.


Also, I had thought, well, it's just a sound. It's not even multi-channel, it's single channel monaural. So what if you just added a track to mask their track. Kind of like, if someone is talking, and I talk louder than them, then you can't even hear the first guy. So could we not insert a track to cover theirs? Another company, has claimed to have finally defeated Cinavia, by accidentally "altering" the signal. They are supposedly releasing the software, like "now".

Or, even analyzing, a cinavia bluray audio file with the same movies non cinavia DVD file and comparing the two to find the algorithm. I mean, it's 7.1 right? So 8 channels of audio, but only ONE of those channels actually has the piggybacked audio.



I know others thought of these things already, but I just haven't found anybody on the net actually trying these things and failing or succeeding.

[Chetwood]

It would be far easier simply not to buy this crap (both hardware and media) till they give up.

[90312]

Either way it just doesn't matter to me anymore, I have DVDFab Media Player and will never again be plagued by Cinavia.

[maineman]

Either way it just doesn't matter to me anymore, I have DVDFab Media Player and will never again be plagued by Cinavia.

Exactly!
I stopped burning 2+ years ago and watch virtually all media content via hdds and media players.

GregiBoy was on my case for a good 2 years before I finally gave it up...so it took me about 2 years to complete the project.
Sounds about right....just ask the wife...

[murffee1]

I agree Maineman. I stopped burning blu-rays about one year ago and never looked back. I save myself some money on blank blu-ray purchases and my movies play flawlessly off my media player.

[Hawk]

No, I'm sorry, but I DID read somewhere, possibly the companies own documents, that state the algorithm actually takes 15-20 because of the way the algorithm is read. I'll try to find that link and post it.

No, It can detect within seconds if it need to. Only reason it keep playing is because of grace period which is 20 Minute for non-trusted source. (aka copy) it doesn’t matter how you copy it always there.

For media which is made by copying in theater grace period is 1 min or even less in that case it doesn’t mute audio, but stop playback all together.

Also, I must ask, how does it know that is a copy? For example, if I make a 1:1 copy, the copy should be exactly identical to the first, right? So how does the cinavia, in the player, know the difference? After all, the embedded cinavia audio is on the main disc, and gets played in the player. But somehow, the player "hears" the difference between the original, and the copy. How can that be? If we can figure the trigger, maybe that is the key.

Signal is present is original as well, however player only play as long AACS is intact. Which is the heart of encryption and usage rules etc. In order to make a copy you need to remove AACS as such it is no longer trusted source and player mute audio.

Also, I had thought, well, it's just a sound. It's not even multi-channel, it's single channel monaural. So what if you just added a track to mask their track. Kind of like, if someone is talking, and I talk louder than them, then you can't even hear the first guy. So could we not insert a track to cover theirs? Another company, has claimed to have finally defeated Cinavia, by accidentally "altering" the signal. They are supposedly releasing the software, like "now".

Signal is very robust and it is not affected noise and other trivial stuff. It is present in every frequency as well every track, provided it is original file as well. Even if you use crappy microphone facing away from the source it will be picked it up by microphone and thus recorded in to media.

Which later on player will pick it up and take necessary action.

same movies non cinavia DVD file and comparing the two to find the algorithm. I mean, it's 7.1 right? So 8 channels of audio, but only ONE of those channels actually has the piggybacked audio.

They have started to include on dvd track as well.

I know others thought of these things already, but I just haven't found anybody on the net actually trying these things and failing or succeeding.

Know you aware of it and hopefully you benefit form reading.

Did you know there are more than 30 different of signal out there each is used for different meaning. If required more than one signal can be included on a source to make it suitable for different purpose.

[beavis71cox]

Thank you hawk.....most extremely helpful.

Now, I have a new thought.......so we remove the AACS keys, to make it copyable, but then now it is viewed as an untrusted source. Is there a way to make the disc seen as a trusted source? Such as after the bluray copy is done, reinsert the AACS key BACK onto the copy? To make it a trusted source?......because as long as the BD player, software, or hardware, sees ANYTHING as a trusted source, it will play it without the cinavia turning on.......

They have started to include on dvd track as well.

I know they are now including on some DVD's, but there are still cinavia bluray discs out there, that also have a DVD release without cinavia. If the two audio's are compared, you might find the differences.

[Hawk]

Thank you hawk.....most extremely helpful.

Now, I have a new thought.......so we remove the AACS keys, to make it copyable, but then now it is viewed as an untrusted source. Is there a way to make the disc seen as a trusted source? Such as after the bluray copy is done, reinsert the AACS key BACK onto the copy? To make it a trusted source?......because as long as the BD player, software, or hardware, sees ANYTHING as a trusted source, it will play it without the cinavia turning on.......

Fengtao tried that apporach, but sony and other players in that industry blacklist that apporach. As such it became useless, furthermore you really can't put AACS back to media in similar manner as commercial stamper do.

Fengtao method only works on some burners and mainly on PS3 and for others you still need to test if it works and for majority it doesn't.

You can read more about it, it was called BDMV-REC in which AACS layer was active and it was on BD-R. In later version of PS3 update (Version higher than 4.00) sony decided BDMV-REC is no longer trusted source. So they added BDMV-REC to non trusted source and cinavia kicks back again.

[Prens]

I found no need to burn bluray discs, until 3d came out. There isn't any PC software that will play 3D in full resolution that doesn't detect cinavia. Only option is to have a standalone bluray player before cinavia came out or an unlicensed standalone media player like the latest med8er.

[mj133]

Either way it just doesn't matter to me anymore, I have DVDFab Media Player and will never again be plagued by Cinavia.

Wish I could get Media player to work, have uninstalled reijnstalled and still wont work 1.0.2.9. dvdfab 8.2.1.8 works, but The Amazing Spiderman copies but then the copy comes out with cinavia message 3, audio temporarily muted, and no more sound.

[90312]

mj133, some folks had that problem who had nvidia graphics cards and got it going by either updating drivers or rolling them back. If you have nvidia graphics you might take a look at that.

[mj133]

Intel HD Graphics, does that also have a problem?
Any Idea why Media player starts then I get message that it stopped working, and it closes? ver 1029

[90312]

Not the same problem but maybe something else related to graphics