Subtitles

[glenns]

I think when putting subtitles in non 3d movies may be different than 3d movies.When i tried to make a mkv with side by side 3d i used the profile (mkv audio pass through 3d) in 3d ripper and just tried chapter 10-11 of Avatar where their is native tongue being used where the sub titles come up when they speak it.

In the full 3d Fab reduced to 25 gig ISO all the subtitles for the movie are present just like the store brought disk if you hit the subtitle button you can here the audio in i think 4 different languages on my media player the full moving menu is also their to select chapters etc.Also the what i believe are forced titles are their and come up by themselves without pressing the subtitle button when they talk in native tongue.

Now how do we know if these are forced subtitles remaining on the compressed disk or are these subtitles for this movie printed on the movie itself? US version region1 disk.This plays fine on my media player that only can play 1.0 menus of blu ray disks.

Side by side 3d i don't think can work with any sub titles at all forced or otherwise as the picture is split in two and recombined by the tv so if you know how do do this what steps do you take to make a side by side with any kind of subtitles forced or not?

I tried it with Avatar with 9.0.2.6 fab version and checked the forced subtitle box and it wouldn't do it with profile mkv audio pass through 3d so what did i do wrong did i use the wrong profile?

Branched only means your media player can't read the blu-rays menu correct? Now the most important question becomes in my mind how many disks have the forced subtitle problem and how do you tell if Avatar has this or it's printed on the film print so you would always see these subtitles?

[GregiBoy]

On the subtitle front:-

The disks of Avatar released here in Oz all have the Na'avi "Burnt In" to the video and therefore no subs are necessary for this to display.

I understand your problem and there is really no way around it other than actually playing the disk or analysing the subs with a program such as "Subtitle Edit" which I use quite often.

The only standard the studios seem to adhere to is NO standard.

Another couple of titles that I have spent considerable time on analysing to get the subs right are "Hunt for Red October" & "Inglorious Basterds".

[EVT]

There are a couple of ways to identify subtitles before getting started with ripping.

What I do is load my Blu-ray Disc on my pc software player if during playback the check mark for subtitles is off then there either no subs or forced subs.

If on the other hand a check mark appears next to a subtitle track that track has to be turned on throughout the whole movie and contains only subtitles for non-English speaking parts.

With that information in hand start dvdfab ripper if it is option 1 above then you create an Mkv with only forced subs and with the option to render to video selected. If option 2 from above is true deselect all but the sub track containing the subs for non English speaking parts and ensure that the forced only option is disabled because this isn't a forced subtitle track.

The above works for both 2d and 3d because you are encoding the subtitles into the video and thus show up properly in 3d as well when creating an SBS 3d Mkv.

If your media player doesn't support blu-ray menu structure there is no way to deal with subtitles or seamless branching properly in the dvdfab blu-ray module so I would stick to Mkv in such a scenario.

There are however alternatives if that's what you want to do but you will need additional software tools to combine the files into 1 will retaining the blu ray structure and to get rid of all but the forced subs that way you can leave subs always on.

But this is too much work. The point to me of a media player is to make your discs more readily accessible but if you have to jump through so many hoops it just not worth it and you might as well play your original discs.

The solution if you want to rip to BDMV or bd iso is a dune player or pch player - no guess work just straight playback of BDMV and BD iso whether over a home network or attached HD. Think of it as kaleidoscope on a budget.

[Chetwood]

What I do is load my Blu-ray Disc on my pc software player if during playback the check mark for subtitles is off then there either no subs or forced subs.

What software is that?

[glenns]

Their are things broken in fab version 9 when trying to make a MKV with 3daudio copy the audio lags the video and in version 9 forced sub picture creates 2 idx /sub files with nothing in it.

When using version 8 the idx/sub files are their with info. in them but when using in my Mecca media player they cause a green screen crash.I am not yet sure my meca can play the idx/sub file anyway.Power dvd 10 software doesn't seem to play any subtitles on the computer.

If i make a 25 gig full 3d copy all subtitles are their and play on my 3d Mecca media player except the forced subs. play with the regular when selecting subtitles on the media player.

I can see all English subtitles mixed in with the forced subtitles so when playing Avatar the native tongue is in subtitles along with the regular subtitles
I can't see just the forced subs all subs together or no subs are my choices with 25 gig fab reduced iso.I have to try the full 50 gig iso yet.

I can't get the side by side to work with forced subs at all so maybe my media player just doesn't play them at all.This really is not a big deal to me as all my 3d videos only Avatar has the forced subtitles so all i have to do is keep that movie in 25 gig full 3d format and use the all subtitle button when native tongue is spoke then turn off subs when that scene is over no big deal for 1 move of almost 200 i have.

EVP:I don't use MKV because it uses a smaller frame size than m2ts and you can see the difference on big 60 inch screens and my 8 foot projection screen even upping the pixels doesn't really make them as clear as m2ts larger frame size.Its something like a Imax frame compared to a 35 mm frame more detail.

Someone told me MKV can be made to look better using a larger frame size but then your making much bigger files.Of cause to each his own as always i like more detail less storage space of the m2ts frame but if your using a 30-50 inch screen or smaller hand held device than MKV may suit your needs and then theirs the subtitle thing and MKV can be used with other software so you really need to compare side by side on a 60 inch screen up to see the in my eyes clear difference the frame size makes with the pixel size the same on both formats.So it boils done to clearer big picture or easy to work with files to each his own compare for yourself and see the result.

Happy new years to our Chinese friends the staff are back and fixing Fabs bugs once again we have missed you welcome back.

[EVT]

Chetwood,

I currently use TMT5 but I'm sure others will do the same. I know powerdvd will give you that information too as I have used that in the past as well.

[EVT]

Glenns,

Mkv is just a container. As for the green screen you were getting when turning on subtitles it sounds like your media player may not support 1080p SUB/IDX subtitles. Mine also does not support these but turning them on has no impact.

As for your media player not picking up forced subs in a BDMV that's what I've been trying to tell you - no bd-lite media player can do that. However, you can make mkv's work for you.

Since it sounds like you encode, try doing an Mkv rip with audio passthrough and the encoding size set to maximum. If you find 8.5 gb BDMV acceptable I think you will be happy with the results. As for subs just have fab encode the forced subs into the video.

I haven't done a 2D Mkv in years but 3d sbs worked for me using the above method.

[glenns]

Ok this subtitle thing is driving me nuts i upgraded firmware to the latest version on my Micca media 3d player and low and behold now it has a extra switch for manual subtitles so the 2 extra files in a fab MVC that gave me green-screen in older firmware now show up as two extra choices under manual subtitle.The choices are idx and sub. The regular subtitle switch plays external vob subtitles.

The regular subtitles will play and combine with the native tongue spoken in Avatar 50 gig iso or reduced to 25 gig iso's but the side by side subtitles are displayed wrong half on one side of the screen half on the other when your tv recombines the 3d picture.

Watching side by side as two pictures side by side without the tv recombining the subtitles works as the 50 and 25 gig version do.I still can't get just the native tongue to play so do we set fab direct render to video or extract to idx/sub file to do this? what does each setting do and when do you use the other.

When using the new fab made external subtitles clicking on the idx or sub files during side by side 3d does nothing so this manual subtitles looks like its for 2d only unless this is a bug because the fab made file has audio sync problems using mvk audio copy 3d.I am going to try the mkv audio pass through and see if that's going to work.

[glenns]

EVTAs for your media player not picking up forced subs in a BDMV that's what I've been trying to tell you - no bd-lite media player can do that. However, you can make mkv's work for you.

Since it sounds like you encode, try doing an Mkv rip with audio passthrough and the encoding size set to maximum. If you find 8.5 gb BDMV acceptable I think you will be happy with the results. As for subs just have fab encode the forced subs into the video.

I haven't done a 2D Mkv in years but 3d sbs worked for me using the above method.)

In reply to the above i have made a mkv rip of Avatar with audio pass through as you said you did however mkv audio pass though is a 2d profile not a 3d side by side profile.

I did it anyway and it worked fine in my Micca media player and only played the subtitles when the creature spoke in native tongue that's exactly what i wanted however the profile produced a 2d movie.

Now i want to produce a 3d movie in full 3d or in side by side 3d.Their are only 3 profiles you can use in 3d MKV I used MKV 3d audio copy because i want to keep the dts master soundtrack the only other profiles for 3d MKV is-3d mkv aac and 3d mkv ac3.

So how did you make a 3d side by side that worked please let me know as my media player seems to play 2d subtitles fine even just the native tongue but trying to get it to work in any 3d format is my problem.