General Question Mechanics of Cinavia (NOT decription)

[billw]

From what I see, Cinavia is a very robust system, and will probably never be broken/defeated by the current methods of signal manipulation. But as one man said (I think it was Gen. George S. Patton), "Anything created by man, can be overcome by man."

One thing that seems to be missing from all the tech discussions about how to defeat Cinavia, is what actually triggers the mute protection, BUT looking at it from a different angle. Let me explain.

Fact: A non-decripted, native Blu-Ray disk works without triggering Cinavia.

Question: WHAT mechanism is used by the native disk to "tell" the player that this disk IS a valid disk?

* Obviously the Cinavia "signal" is present on the original soundtrack, but there's "something" that prevents it from either being looked at, or just shuts off Cinavia.

* Digging further, is there some "trigger" on a native disk, NOT related to the source (audio) file that shuts off Cinavia. I'm sure many folks notice on some disks that there's a small image that quickly flash's for probably a few frames before the movie begins. Probably not related, but worth mentioning anyway.

* Is the Cinavia "signal" embedded in all "channels" or is it only on one (i.e. the center channel, LF sub channel, etc.)?

The question that needs to be answered is how does a commercially mastered native disk (audio tracks we all believe) differ from a disk (or video file) that has been re-encoded, primarily for size reasons (for me at least). In other words, what flips and keeps the Cinavia switch OFF.

Thanks for listening,
Bill

[MrVideo]

Question: WHAT mechanism is used by the native disk to "tell" the player that this disk IS a valid disk?

The AACS copy protection. No protection means copied disc has Cinavia checked for.

* Digging further, is there some "trigger" on a native disk, NOT related to the source (audio) file that shuts off Cinavia. I'm sure many folks notice on some disks that there's a small image that quickly flash's for probably a few frames before the movie begins. Probably not related, but worth mentioning anyway.

Never seen such a thing. Must be your playback equipment.

* Is the Cinavia "signal" embedded in all "channels" or is it only on one (i.e. the center channel, LF sub channel, etc.)?

I do not know the specifics.

The question that needs to be answered is how does a commercially mastered native disk (audio tracks we all believe) differ from a disk (or video file) that has been re-encoded, primarily for size reasons (for me at least). In other words, what flips and keeps the Cinavia switch OFF.l

Cinavia is in the audio.

[billw]

The AACS copy protection. No protection means copied disc has Cinavia checked for.

OK then, if the AACS is the "trigger", how is it getting changed, damaged, or deleted, so as to trigger Cinavia ON?

Never seen such a thing. Must be your playback equipment.

As I said, it wasn't seen on all discs, just a few. I play all my BD's in my PS3, so maybe it lets some things go visible, where other players don't.

Thanks

[MrVideo]

OK then, if the AACS is the "trigger", how is it getting changed, damaged, or deleted, so as to trigger Cinavia ON?

AACS is the copy protection/encryption for Blu-ray discs. DVDFab removes the AACS from all copies. Because the AACS encryption is now gone from the media file, the player must look for Cinavia, no matter the media. That includes any kind of physical media copy or video file (MKV wrapped file, for example). The concept is not complicated.

As I said, it wasn't seen on all discs, just a few. I play all my BD's in my PS3, so maybe it lets some things go visible, where other players don't.

No such file exists on a Blu-ray disc. Anything displayed via a hardware, or computer software player, has to be in a M2TS file. The ONLY exception is the stupid Cinavia message when it pops up. But, even then, it is an overlay on the movie that is playing. It is highly possible that the PS3 is displaying a frame, or so, from a buffer of previous material.

[billw]

OK, thanks for the clarification. After doing a little research on AACS encryption (and decription), it a very convoluted process, which means we're back to square one. So, from what you're saying, AACS (or the lack of) is the "trigger" for Cinavia to kick in.

You know, the entire reason I use products like this is to take BD's I purchase, and reduce the video file size to something manageable so I can stream it via my media server to my PS3. The native 40GB+ files are just to large and demand too much bandwidth to stream as-is. When paring this down to a 6GB file, the bandwidth requirements are much more manageable, still maintains a decent image, not to mention storage space efficient. The presence of Cinavia just makes my (what I consider a legitimate function) enjoyment of my video library, that much more bothersome to maintain. Like a book, I'm only viewing "one" copy of the video. Why the studios make our lives difficult for legitimate content is beyond me (not that I can appreciate the never ending battle against the "dark side").

Thanks,
Bill