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    DVD Ripper Audio Sync Issues

    I'm just starting to use DVDFab over other software, which never has audio sync issues that I can see, and DvdFab's 8225 and 9016 are both giving me major audio sync issues no matter what type of "rip" I do: Blu-Ray to DVD, Blu-Ray Rip to WMV, Blu-Ray Rip to H264, Dvd Rip to H264, etc.

    This morning, I scoured the forums for audio sync issues and found many, many posts, and fairly snarky and non-informational replies from DVDFab's moderators, with no actual suggestions about 1. why it's happening, and 2. how to work around it.

    I work on the audio/video encode/decode team at Microsoft. In fact, I'm one of their senior engineers. I know about how timestamps work in most of the SDK software Microsoft provides, but I am not a DVD or Blu-Ray MPeg2 PS or TS expert, and I don't know if the decoded streams contain presentation timestamps. If they do contains presentation timestamps, then quite obviously, DvdFab has a major glaring bug. It should decode each stream individually, then look at the timestamps and recombine as necessary. It shouldn't matter if the files are on a DVD or "slow media" or on the hard disk.

    If the streams don't contain timestamps, then I'm pretty sure that professional DVD creation labs ensure that when decoding each stream will give you an exact and matching amount of data per second, the streams are always sync-locked in terms of how much data they provide per stream, per second.

    One other thing I saw online was that some "rippers" don't understand the difference between MPeg's "open" and "closed" GOPs and a misunderstanding of these can lead to dropped frames across VOB boundaries, causing an additive delay the farther you get into the movie, and more VOB boundaries you have to cross. If an Open Gop is treated timestamp-wise like a closed GOP across a VOB boundary, at least a frame's worth of video time will be dumped. This doesn't account for the half-second sync issues I'm seeing in DvdFab's output though.

    A last, and less likely problem might be that the input streams are being synced correctly, but the output muxer/writer isn't behaving correctly and is timestamping the samples wrong, or if it's not writing timestamps along with the packets, then it's not ensuring the streams are following the exact same master clock correctly (a common problem), or it's just plain got some weird ol' bug.

    But foremost importantly: It shouldn't matter a damn if the source video comes off the hard drive or a slow-read source like a DVD.

    If anybody at DvdFab wants to hash this out w/ me, (FengTao), I'd be happy to sling some ideas around.
    Last edited by 90312; 12-19-2012, 07:19 PM.

    #2
    You'll need to post an internal log from one of the problematic attempts before I can give you a snarky reply.
    How to post the internal log


    Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
    Albert Einstein

    Comment


      #3
      Ooohkay.... I've tested the heck out of 8 and 9 in a variety of ripping conditions and the sync is nearly never correct. Add on top of this that other companies (cucusoft) can and do get the sync exactly right. Then, add that DVD manufacturers take great care to ensure the audio and DVD streams are both synced to the same master clock. And even on top of THAT, that the audio and video data are interleaved on the DVD. You can't (or shouldn't) really read ahead in the transport stream on one stream and not pull out data on the other stream.

      That leads to just one conclusion: DvdFab has a sync error in the demuxing or muxing that it doesn't know how to fix (yet) and it gripes a lot of people. the moderators don't know how to handle the issue, so it gets repeatedly asked and kicked around like an old tin can.

      So, no, I don't think "Posting my internal log" is going to do you, or anybody else, any good. I haven't seen one post from somebody showing their internal log, and having anybody from DvdFab reply back, "oh so sorry, we know what the sync problem is, you need to do THIS instead". Frequently the sync gripe goes unanswered, or a moderator curtly replies, "see the copyright notice before you post". super duper helpful. The REASON I think posting my internal log won't do any good is because normally it doesn't show any logging information that has anything to do with stream timestamps or durations. There is some scant frame rate and bit rate information, but the logging information just isn't there.

      Try logging what the demuxer and muxer see in terms of timestamps at the end and begining of each VOB, maybe. Or, log what the muxers have to say about it when they think one stream or the other aren't delivering enough data. There just isn't enough information in the current log for you to decipher what went wrong.

      12m 01.27s: Zhuo.Jia >> CallConfigDialog
      12m 09.66s:


      ------ begin mobile work(1/1) ------


      12m 09.66s: info: create config(5)
      12m 09.66s: info: convert profile(iPad3.1080p.mp4)
      12m 09.66s: info: bluray playlist(1),angle(1),chapter(1->32),3D(0)
      12m 09.66s: info: streams((4113.2)(4352.2))
      12m 09.66s: info: not set correct fourcc for video(28)
      12m 09.66s: info: set output video frame_rate(24000/1001)
      12m 09.66s: info: enable multi-thread software decoder
      12m 10.69s: info: h264_encode: encode param profile(1) level(41) bitrate(5538)
      12m 14.75s: info: processing source(00027.m2ts)
      12m 37.39s: info: processing source(00028.m2ts)
      12m 57.59s: info: processing source(00000.m2ts)
      15m 39.84s: info: processing source(00001.m2ts)
      16m 04.49s: info: processing source(00002.m2ts)
      16m 43.34s: info: processing source(00005.m2ts)
      16m 53.07s: info: processing source(00008.m2ts)
      17m 06.95s: info: processing source(00009.m2ts)
      17m 19.33s: info: processing source(00012.m2ts)
      17m 32.21s: info: processing source(00013.m2ts)
      17m 43.74s: info: processing source(00016.m2ts)
      18m 25.57s: info: processing source(00018.m2ts)
      18m 43.29s: info: processing source(00021.m2ts)
      31m 54.43s: info: processing source(00017.m2ts)
      32m 02.65s: info: processing source(00033.m2ts)
      44m 17.10s: info: processing source(00034.m2ts)
      44m 29.09s: info: processing source(00049.m2ts)
      45m 45.50s: info: processing source(00037.m2ts)
      46m 26.31s: info: processing source(00050.m2ts)
      47m 25.39s: info: processing source(00040.m2ts)
      47m 41.96s: info: processing source(00051.m2ts)
      47m 51.50s: info: processing source(00043.m2ts)
      48m 00.69s: info: processing source(00052.m2ts)
      54m 25.59s: info: processing source(00046.m2ts)
      54m 34.89s: info: processing source(00053.m2ts)
      54m 58.12s: info: processing source(00056.m2ts)
      55m 08.34s: info: processing source(00054.m2ts)
      55m 28.25s: info: processing source(00059.m2ts)
      55m 47.03s: info: processing source(00055.m2ts)
      59m 15.93s: info: processing source(00062.m2ts)
      59m 42.88s: info: processing source(00065.m2ts)
      64m 10.07s:


      ------ finish mobile work ------

      Comment


        #4
        zipwax, I have a theory. I have a BR of the first Sherlock Holmes and if I attempt to re-encode the audio to aac I get the dread A/V sync issue including subtitles way off and finally gave up. I bought a media player recently and tried making an MKV audiocopy, and it works a treat. I have other BR movies that will re-encode the audio just fine? I think there is certain releases that DVDFab has a problem with re-encoding the audio for whatever reason. If you have a softplayer or device that will play it try making a file passing through the audio and see if my theory holds water.
        How to post the internal log


        Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
        Albert Einstein

        Comment


          #5
          I used to work on DirectShow. We went through a lot of grief on the dshow team, getting the renderers to play back audio and video in sync, especially on content that was interlaced. We realized all sorts of tricks had to be played with the audio and video data for a variety of reasons.

          Thing is, that was LIVE and what recompression is doing is OFFLINE. When it comes to offline conversion, using source footage (professionally mastered DVDs and blu-rays) should be *perfect* to convert. Unless somebody is doing something very silly.

          The fact that my sync is off by ~ 1 second after 2 hours (7200 seconds) of footage means it's only off by a fraction of a percent. But that fraction bugs the hell out of me and makes the rips impossible to watch.

          Most "pay for" recompression/rip programs use some kind of gnu-licensed recompression SDK under the hood, like "handbrake" or "ffmpeg" or some kind of open-source read/write software and put a fancy UI on it. Fair enough, I don't want to compress stuff by command line anyhow. If that's the case for DvdFab (I have no idea), then it would surprise me a little that the audio conversion is off, but it wouldn't shock me. If I pass the audio compressor (AAC, for example) 480,000 samples to compress, I'm pretty sure when I uncompress it, even using some opensource decompression SDK, that I'll get 480,000 samples back.

          I'm thinking of trying to figure out exactly how much the audio is off over time on a RIP, by opening the blu-ray files directly in Vegas and analyzing the audio waveforms, then opening up the mp4 (or whatever) dvdfab-generated files and comparing where the waveform is for the exact same frame of video. this might be helpful.

          However, having paid well over $200 to buy dvdfab's software, I was/am expecting it to work *better* than this. And I don't like being a beta tester! (I consider the software to be in beta until it gets the sync exactly right)
          Last edited by zipwax; 12-20-2012, 12:51 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Also this is not a new thing nor is it confined to Blu-Ray. Over the years I've ran into sd discs that could not be made to sync and had to resort to other means. I bought an app for my iPad3 that will play MKV audiocopy files but I think that ship has sailed. They have pretty much all dropped support for AC3 even the one I have so I won't update it. I guess the best advice I have is cliche: never put all your eggs in one basket.
            How to post the internal log


            Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
            Albert Einstein

            Comment


              #7
              That's not a very decent or well thought out answer, for a moderator. I paid well over $200 for this software. It needs to fix the sync. It has nothing to do with eggs, baskets, or "trying something else". It bordered on snarky, too!

              Can we have some kind of answer from the DvdFab guy/s?

              Comment


                #8
                Start a new thread Mr. Microsoft engineer, I don't take criticism for trying to help well.

                Thread Closed
                How to post the internal log


                Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
                Albert Einstein

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi zipwax,

                  Please tell us the disc name, I think it's a disc related problem.

                  We use our own conversion engine which includes our own a/v sync engine.

                  Best Regards,
                  Fengtao
                  Last edited by fengtao; 12-20-2012, 02:58 AM.
                  DVDFab is the all-in-one software package for copying Blu-ray/DVD and converting video file.
                  http://www.dvdfab.cn

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I opened the thread fengtao if you want to help this guy.
                    How to post the internal log


                    Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
                    Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks!
                      DVDFab is the all-in-one software package for copying Blu-ray/DVD and converting video file.
                      http://www.dvdfab.cn

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi zipwax
                        Nice little rant your having...
                        Since you know all about this post because you brought it up.

                        Why not give this one a very good read through

                        If you ever make another comment about us moderators you will be banned from this forum for life...

                        We are members just like you, but with moderator privileges for our contributions on the forum, we do not get paid or have any input as to what gets fixed.

                        I suggest if you want to speak with Fengtao or any of the DVD Fab staff about your theories, then use the link at the bottom of every forum page.

                        Be careful as to what you say if you decide to post again.
                        CBR929
                        Even if it's a little thing, do something for those who have need of help, something for which you get no pay but the privilege of doing it.


                        Setting Up ImgBurn and DVDFab to work together

                        Tips for Posting DVDFab Logs in the Forum

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Fengtao: I'm one of the people that wrote DirectShow. I've been at Microsoft for 15 years. I have friends who wrote most of the mpeg2 mux, demux, timestamping, and rendering code. If you guys have a timestamp issue, then I can probably help in some small way. If it's just the disc being mastered wrong, that would be interesting, cause I'm seeing the problem with almost all the dvds and blu-rays I'm trying it with.

                          I'd rather converse w/ you privately, if you'll allow it. I'm not some starry-eyed noob wanting to "chat w/ the big boys" or ask you for free software, I'd really like to see your pretty reasonably quality software get better, and I'd like to be able to rip my own dvds!

                          Please private message me for my (work) email address?

                          thanks!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Speed (Blu-ray) (keanu reeves) was out of sync with the audio. Tried 3 different times & it never would sync up.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              DVD rip to mkv.passthrough

                              I'm moving my personal movie library copies to Plex.
                              They are currently full copies in folders.
                              Full Disc copy works fine.
                              I bulk converted several DVD Copies to mkv.passthrough.
                              Lip sync is hard to see precisely using the naked eye, but approx 1/4 of them are way off, several seconds at the end.
                              I've always had lip sync problems with DVD's using mkv.passthrough.

                              Below are a few.

                              Better off dead
                              Big Stan
                              Bionicle the legend reborn
                              black dynamite
                              blades of glory

                              I'm not sure if ZipWax has the answer, but if he does, I for one am grateful if he can shed light on it.
                              I've also recommended your software to a friend that is doing the same thing as me and he is having lip sync issues with his DVD's
                              BluRays seems to work fine all the time with mkv.passthrough.

                              Comment

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