A/V Sync progressively worse into video

[e6bwhiz]

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on how I can get A/V to remain sync'd.

I have been taking VHS tapes and dubbing them to DVD using a Toshiba D-VR610KU. The DVDs play fine in other DVD players as well as computer based players (VLC Media Player & Media Player Classic). I also followed the "best practices" post. After perfoming a DVD to DVD copy to the hard drive the resulting file played fine. Only when ripping to avi does the audio become progressively out of sync as the track goes on.

DVDFab version 6.2.1.8
Vista

I've tried several attempts, all have the same a/v sync issue:

avi.h264.mp3 with deinterlace (both stereo and Dolby II)
avi.h264.mp3 without deinterlace (both stereo and Dolby II)
avi.h264.audiocopy

I've also tried the process on 2 different computers with no success.

Any thoughts?

[e6bwhiz]

Also tried rips using xvid with same problem. Forgot to mention, but also tried single and double-pass rips with same result. I really don't care what format I get it to, but I need it to be playable and editable in video editing software.

[e6bwhiz]

Did some more experimenting. For the first batch of tests I let DVDFab choose the frame rate, which was 29.97. I tried interlace, deinterlace, different audio options and formats. Still, the audio lagged behind the video about 1 second about 1 hours into the DVD.

I then tried switching the frame rate in DVDFab to 23.976 and tried ripping with and without deinterlacing. All same a/v sync problem.

Following best practices I have been using the DVD to DVD copy from my hard drive. I played the DVD file in Media Player Classic and it showed a frame rate of 29.97. Again, it plays this DVD file fine all the way through.

I went back and looked at all my rips that were not store-bought DVDs. Every single one of them has audio lag that get worse as time goes on. These were ripped with previous versions of DVDFab as well. I usually only have short clips and just haven't really noticed until now.

I have tried the following options in DVDFab with the same audio lag:

generic.h264.mp3 (stereo) with deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.mp3 (stereo) without deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.mp3 (Dolby II) with deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.mp3 (Dolby II) without deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.mp3 (stereo) with deinterlacing 23.976 fps
generic.h264.mp3 (stereo) without deinterlacing 23.967 fps
generic.xvid.mp3 (stereo) with deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.xvid.mp3 (stereo) without deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.audio copy with deinterlacing 29.97 fps
generic.h264.audio copy without deinterlacing 29.97 fps

Each rip with my long test DVD takes about 45 minutes, so I just need some direction because I'm just at a loss.

[AGJ]

These are DVDs made from your VHS tapes am I correct? maybe the audio was out of sync on the DVD you made from the VHS to start with as you are not using files from an original retail DVD but a DVD made from your VHS tapes

[e6bwhiz]

Thanks for the reply. The DVDs that the Toshiba produced play fine, in different stand-alone players as well as various computer DVD players. The audio remains sync'd all the way through.

I even did a DVD to DVD copy to my hard drive using DVDFab. I then played these DVD files from my hard drive with different players and the audio remained sync'd.

Only when using DVDFab to convert to a single file does the audio always lag. Now that I've been looking at all my rips, only store-bought DVDs ever come out fine. And they do come out great, but I wish DVDFab worked with my other DVDs.

Some more info:

When loading a store-bought DVD, Fab will auto set my profile to encode at 23.976 fps with deinterlacing unchecked. When loading my dubbed DVDs, Fab auto sets it at 29.97 fps with deinterlacing checked.

I just don't get it. I kept thinking the dubbed DVDs are bad, but I've tried every quality setting for the dubs and tried DVD-R and DVD+R. They always play fine--as DVDs. I just can't get a good avi from them. But, I've only really used Fab for it. I may have to move to another program. I like DVDFab a lot and it would be a shame if this function turned out not to work for me.

[GregiBoy]

I have seen this on commercial DVD's also.

Somewhere in the structure of the DVD, or somewhere in Fab, the incorrect framerate is being picked up. I'll have a look at a couple that I know of with IFOEdit and see if I can pick what it is.

I do suggest that you send the IFO's of the offending DVD's to Fab with your good explanation of what is happening.

[e6bwhiz]

Thanks, I'll do that. I appreciate any advice on this. I have quite a few old family VHS recordings and such and now they are on these DVDs. My plan from the beginning was to get them onto my computer to preserve and edit them. I played various DVDs with Media Player Classic and viewed its real-time track info. The store bought DVDs showed a frame rate of 23.976, as I would expect. The Toshiba DVDs showed 29.97 fps. All the other variables listed were pretty much the same for all DVDs.

[e6bwhiz]

I tried twice to send DVDFab the IFOs, but both email attempts "failed permanently" due to rejection from the recipient domain.

[e6bwhiz]

I combed through my DVD collection and found several store-bought DVDs that are 29.97 fps and interlaced. Ripping to avi with DVDFab sometimes gave an audio lag. One common issue with the interlaced video also seems to be lack of quality. I used Fair Use Wizard a couple years back and it gave much better quality rips at the same or lower bit rates than DVDFab for interlaced video, and I never had an audio sync problem. I would love to see Fab improve in this area.

[rprussell]

I have noticed this too - not the DVD FPS issue per se, but a persistent increase in A/V sync as the AVI goes on.

The major symptom seems to be that at some point in the film, there will be a static-like hiccup in the sound and at that point the sound begins lagging. It's not too bad to begin with, but as the static blips occur more often, the gap increases.

Latest discs are "Jurassic Park Collectors Edition," and "Dragon Wars" - the latter of which, you will be relieved to know, was not made any worse by the A/V sync, and maybe even BETTER.

[GregiBoy]

Are you sure the glitch is not when the layer break would be?

[e6bwhiz]

Funny. Well, thanks for the input. I have since used the most recent full copy of [other software] and BitRipper. BitRipper did show signs of lag, but [other software] never has lag, in any of my rips. Unfortunately the program is harder for me to learn and I again have to experiment to get the rip I want. I mean, why does a GUI let you choose codec setting encoding like by bitrate and then force you to choose either set file size or quantizer in the GUI, at the same time? Anyway, it's much slower than Fab as well. I was so excited when Fab came out with the file option, but looks like I can't rid myself of Fair Use yet.

As far as the glitch's go, it may be something inherent in the way my Toshiba player encodes. I've made dozens of discs. Some are 6 hours for a single track, some have 40 tracks on the DVD. Fab produces the same audio lag every time, gradually increasing at a rate of being about 1-2 seconds after an hour. The shorter tracks never lag much because they end before the sync issue is too noticeable. I can't remember all the commercial discs that had a problem. Family Guy is interlaced, but remains sync'd pretty well in Fab. Unfortunately the quality isn't acceptable for me. "ABBA - The Definitive Collection" (region 1) is another that doesn't seem to remain synced perfectly. Can't remember others. Either way, I just can't use Fab in its present form for interlaced DVDs due to either a/v sync or quality issues.

[Complication]

@e6bwhiz, please read the General Policies sticky thread at the top of each forum before posting again.

[rprussell]

Are you sure the glitch is not when the layer break would be?

Absolutely. It happened w/in 20 mins in Jurassic Park and multiple times in both films.

Is there any info I could collect that would help?

[rprussell]

Interestingly, it still happened converting to a WMV - but happened *less* after I ripped to an ISO and then converted from the ISO.