Subtitle Formats - mp4 Won't Display on Samsung TV

Mauser

I am new to this software, and I have been fighting to understand how downloaded subtitles work and how to get them to display on my TV. I am using StreamFab 6.0.0.4, downloading from Amazon, and Remuxing the subtitles into the file. Unfortunately, I do not have a good understanding of the mechanics of how subtitles function.

I have a very old Asus O!Play media player that can play StreamFab downloads just fine, but it insists that there are absolutely NO subtitles in the files at all.

In contrast, If I play the files directly with my Samsung TV, it does "see" each subtitle track that I have included, and it lets me select them, but it will only display subtitles if I use the .mkv format. It still sees the subtitles included in .mp4 files, but it will never display them during playback.

So I will use .mkv for now and play the files through the TV directly, but I still want to understand how to get subtitles to work in .mp4 files. The Samsung TV supports the following internal subtitle formats for MP4 containers:

MPEG-4 Timed Text
TTML in smooth streaming
SMPTE-TT Text
SMPTE-TT PNG

MediaInfo shows that my mp4 files from StreamFab have subtitles in Timed Text format, and that is about all I know. That seems to say that the subtitles should be displaying fine when I play these files on the TV, but they do not. The mp4 subtitled do display fine when using VLC on my computer, but not when playing the files on my Samsung TV. Is this a bug in the software, or is there some other setting I can try for the downloads?

october262

I am new to this software, and I have been fighting to understand how downloaded subtitles work and how to get them to display on my TV. I am using StreamFab 6.0.0.4, downloading from Amazon, and Remuxing the subtitles into the file. Unfortunately, I do not have a good understanding of the mechanics of how subtitles function.

I have a very old Asus O!Play media player that can play StreamFab downloads just fine, but it insists that there are absolutely NO subtitles in the files at all.

In contrast, If I play the files directly with my Samsung TV, it does "see" each subtitle track that I have included, and it lets me select them, but it will only display subtitles if I use the .mkv format. It still sees the subtitles included in .mp4 files, but it will never display them during playback.

So I will use .mkv for now and play the files through the TV directly, but I still want to understand how to get subtitles to work in .mp4 files. The Samsung TV supports the following internal subtitle formats for MP4 containers:
MPEG-4 Timed Text
TTML in smooth streaming
SMPTE-TT Text
SMPTE-TT PNG
MediaInfo shows that my mp4 files from StreamFab have subtitles in Timed Text format, and that is about all I know. That seems to say that the subtitles should be displaying fine when I play these files on the TV, but they do not. The mp4 subtitled do display fine when using VLC on my computer, but not when playing the files on my Samsung TV. Is this a bug in the software, or is there some other setting I can try for the downloads?
Mauser

you can use ffmpeg to "hard code" the subtitles in the MP4 files
meaning the subtitles are burned in and cannot be turned off.

Per K

Try to download MKVToolNix and add the problematic MP4 file to it.
Mark the subtitle in the MP4 file and then in the options for it set the subtitle to be forced and then output it as MKV.
Dunno if it will work with the outputted MKV file on a Samsung TV, but it works in tons of media players that they then will force the subtitle to be shown.

KidJoe

So if I'm reading this right, your Asus O!Play media player wont handle the subs, but Samsung TV will see/play only if its an MKV file. And everything works great with VLC on your PC.

How old are the TV and Asus O!Play? I imagine the Asus O!Play is more than 10 years old. The MP4 and MKV "containers" have evolved over time, so older players might not be able to use some of the newer features in the specs.

Are you trying to play the videos directly off a USB stick plugged into them? or across a network share? or from a "Server" like Plex, Emby, Jellyfin, or the like?

Subtitles are tricky. IF VLC on computer plays them back fine, including any mix of subs and audio, then your files are ok, its a matter of figuring out what features of the containers your devices support, and if its enough to handle the subtitles.

Some older players need the subtitles burned into the video. Some only support "external" .SRT files, or can't handle MKV files.

I had an old D-Link DSM-510 media player (my first steps into playing digital files across the network onto my TV) that couldn't handle subs unless they were burned into the video. I had LG Bluray players (LG BD390 and BD570) that need the videos to be .MPG, .M2TS or .TS with subs in .SRT file named EXACTLY like the main movie (yes this meant only 1 set of subs per movie). And I've had some android tablets with their own media players that had their own issues with subs.

I've found the most compatible to be create a folder, with an .MP4 file on the main movie that has a single video and audio track inside, and an external .SRT named exactly as the main movie (except the extension being .SRT). IF that doesn't work, your player might not handle subs at all.

If all else fails, are you able to try using a server/client setup like Plex, Emby, Jellyfin, or the like? That might let the server handled and render the subs for your clients (TV and Asus O!Play). Of course that would mean the client for your TV and the O!Play need to be available, and the age of each could come into play.

Mauser

So if I'm reading this right, your Asus O!Play media player wont handle the subs, but Samsung TV will see/play only if its an MKV file. And everything works great with VLC on your PC.

How old are the TV and Asus O!Play? I imagine the Asus O!Play is more than 10 years old. The MP4 and MKV "containers" have evolved over time, so older players might not be able to use some of the newer features in the specs.

Are you trying to play the videos directly off a USB stick plugged into them? or across a network share? or from a "Server" like Plex, Emby, Jellyfin, or the like?

KidJoe

Yes, that is exactly the situation. I play my media files from a variety of locations, including my NAS, USB HDDs, USB memory sticks, and DLNA server (I do not use DLNA much).

The Asus player does handle subs from DVD ISO copies just fine. It is very old, and even though I would certainly like it to still do everything, I accept that it is past it's prime. Since I use it to play so many DVD ISO copies, I have been kinda worried that it might crap out and leave me stranded without easy access to my large library. I am now trying to find/test other devices for media playback that can handle full DVD ISO menus.

The Samsung TV is maybe 3 years old. When I play a StreamFab mp4 download on the TV from the NAS or a USB device, the TV sees all of the included subtitle tracks and lets me select any of them, but the text just never appears on the screen. Since it is a major brand and fairly new, I was hoping that perhaps the implementation of subtitles in mp4 files with StramFab needed some minor fix to have the Samsung TV be able to play them.

But since the mp4 subtitles do work fine with VLC, I suspected someone would just say 'it ain't our problem'. Oh well, since it works fine with mkv, I guess I'll just use that and be satisfied. I really don't want to dick around doing extra things just to get the subtitles to work with mp4.

Thanx much for your great reply!

Cats4U

I honestly don't know if this is anyway related to your Samsung subtitle problem but I stumbled over this while doing research on the upcoming Widevine change. https://developer.samsung.com/signage/develop/specifications/general-specifications.html Maybe you can make heads or tails out of it because I certainly can't because I'm not familiar with the workings of Samsung products.

KidJoe

The Asus player does handle subs from DVD ISO copies just fine. It is very old, and even though I would certainly like it to still do everything, I accept that it is past it's prime. Since I use it to play so many DVD ISO copies, I have been kinda worried that it might crap out and leave me stranded without easy access to my large library. I am now trying to find/test other devices for media playback that can handle full DVD ISO menus.
Mauser

Keep in mind that a DVD ISO will have VOBs that use the MPEG2 codec inside, and other files, just as they are on a real DVD. It will not have MP4 or MKV files that are AVC/H264/H265 codec in them, like what you are downloading with StreamFab and the like.

This goes back to the capabilities of the players, relative to the files you are trying to play back.

Here's a test. Find an ISO of a DVD with subtitles that works on the Asus Player, then use MakeMKV to rip main movie to MKV file, and see if your Asus player can handle the resulting MKV and show the subs. (in MakeMKV File -> Open Files, find/select your ISO). At last that will tell us if it can play Subtitles from an MKV where the video is still the same MPEG2 codec.

jpp72

My advice for you, @Mauser, would be to get yourself a proper streaming device that gets regular updates. My recommendation would be an NVidia Shield TV Pro simply because you want to use USB sticks/hdds but if you find it too expensive, just get a Chromecast with Google TV. The 4k version is around $50 and the 1080p version is like $25.

From there, you can install Kodi and it will play EVERYTHING you throw at it including your ISOs. If you get something without a USB port, you can play things from an SMB or NFS share (depending on your OS). Just share the StreamFab download folder and you don't have to copy stuff to a USB and then physically connect it to the TV.