HBO Max HBO Max Analysis Bitrates Wildly Exaggerated

[jhyler]

I just analyzed a bunch of movies on HBO Max - the bitrates promised by the analysis tool are all grossly wrong. For example, take the movie "Eraserhead". Using H265, the analysis shows Resolution: 1920x1038 - 12071 kbps - 1.37 GB as the best choice. There is no compression on earth that will compress a 90 minute movie retaining that resolution and bitrate into a 1.37G container. In fact, when downloaded (hoping it was the size estimate that was wrong) what you actually get is 1920x1038 at 2159 kbps in 1.45 GB.

1920x1038 at 12071 kbps is watchable. 1920x1038 at 2159kbps is crap. The difference is important - for me, it is the difference between being well worth downloading and not worth bothering.

At a guess, I'd guess that the analyzer found a 12071 kbps version out there, but the software can only download a 2159 kbps version.

Please fix. If you can't download a 12071 kbps version, then don't say you can.

[Germania]

I just analyzed a bunch of movies on HBO Max
the bitrates promised by the analysis tool are all grossly wrong
..
At a guess, I'd guess that the analyzer found a 12071 kbps version out there,
but the software can only download a 2159 kbps version.

The bit rates specified are not incorrect; rather,
they are the specifications contained in Max's mpd.
see also: Max Bitrate




On the other hand, the file sizes are the
correct sizes of the corresponding mp4 file.

[jhyler]

Well, I can agree with you partially. As I suspected, there is a 12071 kbps version available, and I thank you for confirming it. That, however, isn't the point. The purpose of the analysis window is to show the user the available choices for a potential download, so the user can make an informed choice of which one to download, if any, and that's where StreamFab messed up. It gave me an (apparent) option to download a 12071 kpbs version, then it failed to do it. What's worse, the 1.37gb file size shown in the analysis window makes clear that Streamfab knew in advance that it would be unable to provide that bitrate. The movie is 1:29:14 long, or 5354 seconds. A stream of 12071 thousand bits per second for 5354 seconds works out to 64,628,134 bits, or about 7.7 GB. Streamfab knew in advance it was only going to download a 1.37 GB file. Therefore it had all the information to know it wasn't going to download a 12071 kbps stream, and shouldn't have indicated that it could.

I don't need StreamFab to tell me what's available at the CDN. It's unimportant. There are other ways to know that. All that's important is what StreamFab is able to provide. That's what the analysis window is for.

In fact, by mixing apples and oranges StreamFab presented a nonsensical choice - a 1:29:14 stream at 12071 kpbs resulting in a 1.37 GB download file is just plain impossible. That's the problem. Looking only at the analysis results, you can't detect which of the bitrate or filesize is wrong. So it is no longer possible to make an informed choice. That's why it's important that this be fixed.

The lesson for me is to pay more attention to the details in the window, and in case of discrepency to assume the download size is correct and bitrate is wrong. And a 90 minute movie in 1.37GB is definitely on my do-not-download list.

[Germania]

If you know that movie length is 5354 seconds and the file size is 1,37 GB
You can calculate: 1436549 kB / 5354 seconds = 268.3 kBps x 8 => 2146 kbps

That should be possible for SF, since SF does the same for Prime Video.
(PV have only values like 1500, 2000, 3000, 4500 .. - like here)


btw: If ~2100 kbps (result 2190) HEVC for a black-and-white movie (!)
is on your “do-not-download list”, you should cancel HBO Max

[jhyler]

If you know that movie length is 5354 seconds and the file size is 1,37 GB
You can calculate: 1436549 kB / 5354 seconds = 268.3 kBps x 8 => 2146 kbps

But looking at the analysis window, you don't know that. You can tell that one of the bitrate or the file size is wrong, you can't tell which. But internally, as shown above, StreamFab knew. And that's exactly what StreamFab ought to have done, report the much lower bitrate as what would be downloaded. That's been my point all along: tell me what you're going to download.

btw: If ~2100 kbps (result 2190) HEVC for a black-and-white movie (!)
is on your “do-not-download list”, you should cancel HBO Max

For a movie from from 1930's or earlier, when the film gauge was small and the grain was more like beach sand, sure. Of course, offering such a film at 1920x1038 would be silly, too. For a David Lynch masterpiece made in 1977 with state-of-the-art equipment (for the time) and B&W being a conscious choice, no.

And you ignore that HBO Max has a lot of modern films that StreamFab will retrieve at very high bitrates - for a streaming service - indeed. It used to be Amazon was the clear winner there. Not any more. Just as well, given the grief they've been giving out recently.

[0xFeedBeef]

I just analyzed a bunch of movies on HBO Max - the bitrates promised by the analysis tool are all grossly wrong. For example, take the movie "Eraserhead". Using H265, the analysis shows Resolution: 1920x1038 - 12071 kbps - 1.37 GB as the best choice. There is no compression on earth that will compress a 90 minute movie retaining that resolution and bitrate into a 1.37G container. In fact, when downloaded (hoping it was the size estimate that was wrong) what you actually get is 1920x1038 at 2159 kbps in 1.45 GB.

1920x1038 at 12071 kbps is watchable. 1920x1038 at 2159kbps is crap. The difference is important - for me, it is the difference between being well worth downloading and not worth bothering.

At a guess, I'd guess that the analyzer found a 12071 kbps version out there, but the software can only download a 2159 kbps version.

Please fix. If you can't download a 12071 kbps version, then don't say you can.

They are not, you just need to know how adaptive streaming works... Hint: the manifest lists peak bitrate that the connection needs to be capable of for a specific stream... the manifests aren't written for StreamFab