Amazon Reencoding?

[corey75]

I bought this program as a 1080p downloader, not screen recorder or whatever it has become. Based on all of the forum replies 1080 obviously isn't returning anytime soon, if at all to streamfab, even though all of my other downloaders are downloading the stream at 1080p with the new DRM implementations. Why is streamfab REENCODING an Amazon download now? Would love it if you guys would stop creating new useless downloaders and fix the existing ones with problems. I'm sure I can speak for most people here, not all, but most that we don't want all the extra downloaders. We just want the main original ones to work as advertised.

EDIT: I just noticed that a download from amazon is downloading in standard quality and upscaling. The original file downloaded is 140mb but then the output size is 266mb. Why is this program upscaling shitty low quality video?

[signals]

Rants are subject to deletion with no notice.

[BC9448]

Well, we are on v4.0.1.0 and the Amazon downloader did not work for me again. I downloaded "The Admiral Was a Lady" [1950] {Approved} the downloader said it was reencoding at 720p. I got a movie at 480p and the end of the movie is 12 minutes from the end of the file. {Shows black screen for 12 minutes}

[Wilson.Wang]

Hi,

For Amazon 1080p problem, please wait for the new version at this week, keep the eyes for the change log.


Wilson

[twhiting9275]

I think the better question is why are ANY of these sites being re-encoded now? The point of download was that it's not just grabbing video from your screen, but actually DOWNLOADING the video from the website entirely. The fact that Amazon (when it works), Netflix, Hulu, etc are taking people's PC's down as a post download process, because of CPU/GPU usage is quite concerning. The fact that it takes 15 minutes to re-encode something from Amazon (again, when it downloads), or 5 minutes for Hulu/Netflix, even on high end PC's , that says there's a huge problem here.

To give up on the product or not is a personal question that only you can answer for yourself. After all, they DO keep saying "next version"... Who knows maybe, just maybe it'll actually work right?

[tdfrgsn]

I think the better question is why are ANY of these sites being re-encoded now?

DRM changes after June 1

[KidJoe]

I think the better question is why are ANY of these sites being re-encoded now?

I'm not going to claim to know the inner workings of this or any other similar app (that claims to download). BUT i can say that the few times I've watched the StreamFab temp folders while it was in process, I did see the video file and audio file of the movie were separate.

In those cases the "RE-ENCODING", as people are calling it, seemed to be more of a process of remuxing in order to join the separate audio and video files together.

On those couple of examples, I copied the video file(that had no audio) from the temp folder to my windows desktop, then after Streamfab said it was done, I compared its final output with the temp video(that had no audio). The bitrate, codec, and resolution of the video in the audio-less temp video and the final output MP4 were the same. SO it was definitely NOT Re-Encoded. If it were re-encoded, at minimum the video bitrates would be different.

The point of download was that it's not just grabbing video from your screen, but actually DOWNLOADING the video from the website entirely. The fact that Amazon (when it works), Netflix, Hulu, etc are taking people's PC's down as a post download process, because of CPU/GPU usage is quite concerning. The fact that it takes 15 minutes to re-encode something from Amazon (again, when it downloads), or 5 minutes for Hulu/Netflix, even on high end PC's , that says there's a huge problem here.

I have tried a product from another vendor who does claim to download (and from what I can tell does download). They too have some "Post processing" once the download phase has completed. Again, I don't claim to know what is happening there, but if you look at post processing and say that means its not downloading, then I would also have to question that other tool. BUT I'm sure there is probably a valid explanation on both tools.

As for the spike in CPU/GPU usage. I haven't experienced that on my main PC (i9-10900K w/RTX3060 gpu, 32gig ram, etc), but I've seen the reports in the forum, and yes it is a concern. Best we can do is keep feeding back logs and hope they find it.

I see an FFMPEG exe in StramFab's install folder, if they are using FFMPEG for post processing to join the audio/video together, and add the thumbnail and meta info (i.e. movie name, description, writing application) to the output file, Could that is where the issue is? And would Streamfab logs catch that if it was the issue?

I only mention this because I have another tool for re-encoding/shrinking Blurays, that had some unintended consequences of updating tools the author called. So I wonder if that might be happening here?

To give up on the product or not is a personal question that only you can answer for yourself. After all, they DO keep saying "next version"... Who knows maybe, just maybe it'll actually work right?

As I mentioned, I've tried another product, it too has bugs of its own which are being worked on. I see "next version" in their forum too.

[KidJoe]

They're downloading things separately, and completely re-encoding the video itself, which is killing PCs..
BTW:
It's NOT necessary to do this, at all. Again, they just chose to do so this way....


...That's not what I said, that's what YOU said. You (who by your own admission doesn't know what's going on) claimed Streamfab isn't re-encoding. It is. That's what happens when you do things the way that the developers have chosen to do them (which is an incorrect approach)...


...They are, and that is re-encoding the video, which is what is killing user's computers...

You keep repeating they are re-encoding. What is your basis for this? just because the CPU/GPU spike during post processing?

Do you have any other visibility into the process they are using or examples of changes in parameters of the audio or video between the raw download and the output from Streamfab?

I'm not just "CLAIMING" it doesn't re-encode. Please re-read what I posted... (bold added to this quote by me)

BUT i can say that the few times I've watched the StreamFab temp folders while it was in process, I did see the video file and audio file of the movie were separate.

In those cases the "RE-ENCODING", as people are calling it, seemed to be more of a process of remuxing in order to join the separate audio and video files together.

On those couple of examples, I copied the video file(that had no audio) from the temp folder to my windows desktop, then after Streamfab said it was done, I compared its final output with the temp video(that had no audio). The bitrate, codec, and resolution of the video in the audio-less temp video and the final output MP4 were the same. SO it was definitely NOT Re-Encoded. If it were re-encoded, at minimum the video bitrates would be different.

I'm sharing why I say its not re-encoding. Again if all they are doing is joining audio and video, and NOT altering the downloaded audio or video in any way (i.e. not changing the bit rate, resolution, etc). how is that COMPLETELY RE-ENCODING as you've claimed?

IF the parameters of the video (or audio) changed between what was downloaded and what StreamFab's output is, sure I'd say they were re-encoding it. But what I had seen in these examples, it wasn't.

The only RE-ENCODING I can see happening is when I have Amazon Codec set to h.265 if the original downloaded stream was actually AVC or H.264. Then yes, in that case it would be re-encoding the video from one codec to another.

If you want to keep saying they are re-encoding, please share the basis for your conclusion to help me understand where you're drawing your conclusions from. And please don't say "because another software does xxxxx"

You claim that downloading separate audio and video files and joining them the is an incorrect approach. Sure one can argue it might not be the best way. What makes it an "incorrect approach"? Because a competing product appears to do it a different way? Because one service stopped working and the dev's haven't given us a fix yet?

The difference? They actually fix the problem in their "next version", and in most cases, the versions affeted by bugs are beta versions , which are bound to have bugs anyways. I'm not going to name the software you're thinking of, but pretty sure there aren't many on this level that do that, but this one does it right
Also, the whole 'next version' thing isn't anything new. We've been promised this specific issue (amazon hd) would be fixed in the 'next version' multiple times by multiple staff members for months now.... So, yeah, people have the right to be a bit worried

There are outstanding bugs in that other software. I'm still waiting on them being fixed.

I'm not excusing the Fab folks for not having a fix yet for Amazon. I have voice my frustration in several posts, I just have not been as boisterous as you have. But I am saying that not everyone fixes things to the schedule we paying users want.

[tdfrgsn]

I'm sharing why I say its not re-encoding. Again if all they are doing is joining audio and video, and NOT altering the downloaded audio or video in any way (i.e. not changing the bit rate, resolution, etc). how is that COMPLETELY RE-ENCODING as you've claimed?

Because re-encoding means re-encoding. There are still providers like HBO Max that don't do any re-encoding and those downloads say "Processing" instead. The language used changed a few times once they had to start re-encoding files, originally it was a blanket "Parsing" for all files but at some point they changed it to either say "Re-encoding" or "Processing" depending on what it was actually doing.

[tdfrgsn]

If you want to keep saying they are re-encoding, please share the basis for your conclusion to help me understand where you're drawing your conclusions from. And please don't say "because another software does xxxxx"

If you'd like to see this for yourself you can download episodes 10 and 11 from season 11 of NYPD Blue from Hulu. I was in the process of downloading this show when the DRM change happened. There were a handful of episodes that wouldn't originally download out of the series. Once StreamFab was updated to resolve the issues downloading from Hulu I was able to download the remaining episodes except that they took much longer during the Parsing stage and the frame rate on the resulting files was choppy and made the episodes unwatchable (a problem which still hasn't been fixed). If you download these two episodes now you'll see that episode 10 goes into Processing once the video and audio are downloaded and only takes about 30 seconds to finish. Episode 11 goes into Reencoding instead and takes about 5 minutes to finish. I added screenshots of both so you can see the difference in language used.

[tdfrgsn]

IF the parameters of the video (or audio) changed between what was downloaded and what StreamFab's output is, sure I'd say they were re-encoding it. But what I had seen in these examples, it wasn't.

Here is the MediaInfo data for the two video streams from the two resulting files. There's a clear difference in the two between the one which said Processing and the one which said Reencoding. The only conclusion I can draw is that the reason for the difference is that one was re-encoded and the other wasn't, unless Hulu is giving completely changing their encoding process between two episodes of a series.

[KidJoe]

If you'd like to see this for yourself you can download episodes 10 and 11 from season 11 of NYPD Blue from Hulu. I was in the process of downloading this show when the DRM change happened. There were a handful of episodes that wouldn't originally download out of the series. Once StreamFab was updated to resolve the issues downloading from Hulu I was able to download the remaining episodes except that they took much longer during the Parsing stage and the frame rate on the resulting files was choppy and made the episodes unwatchable (a problem which still hasn't been fixed). If you download these two episodes now you'll see that episode 10 goes into Processing once the video and audio are downloaded and only takes about 30 seconds to finish. Episode 11 goes into Reencoding instead and takes about 5 minutes to finish. I added screenshots of both so you can see the difference in language used.

I can honestly say I have NOT see RE-ENCODING message before when downloading. And I've downloaded from Amazon (before it broke, as I'm not downloading anything there until its fixed and gives better than SD), Netflix, HBOMax, Disney+, Paramount+, as well as a few TV Series from Hulu.

THANK YOU for your response and the example. That is what I was looking for!

My understanding from all the posts was that StreamFab is ALWAYS Re-ENCODING for a particular service. Apparently it is not. Rather it is certain episodes/titles on certain services.

Let me get your thoughts on an experiment I just did....

I went into Hulu, queued up S11_E10 and S11_E11. Yes, S11_E10 did show Downloading -> Processing -> REmuxing. S11_E11 did show Downloading -> Reencoding (no processing or remuxing). Which appears to match what you see, is that correct?

Both took about the same amount of time from start to when StreamFab reported they were done. Sorry I didn't use a stop watch, if there was a difference in time it was negligible and not noticed. BUT that is not what you see, am I correct?

My CPU never went above 25% (and was often around 10-15% and my GPU never went over 80% ( was often around 50%). Are you seeing spikes in CPU or GPU? If so, how high do they go? Are you able to repeat it reliably with any particular video/service?

Here is where it gets odd... I pulled the VIDEO files for both episodes from the TEMP folder when download was done, but before StreamFab reported the episode was DONE. These are the raw videos as downloaded BEFORE any processing, re-encoding, or remixing was done. There is no audio in these files yet.



NEITHER file will play, no matter what video player I use. From what MediaInfo shows, the video stats on both are identical, other than the bit rate, which is understandable for different videos.

AFTER both are done here are the stats of the final output MP4 file...



It looks the same as what you posted.

Its obvious on S11E10 the Video was NOT touched (all video parameters match), it was NOT re-encoded. However S11E11 it was (bit rate is different, variable frame rate, and a few other added parameters now show). Yes, S11E11 was re-encoded.

And it is repeatable. Downloading those two episodes multiple times, results are the same. S11E10 always remuxes (video in Temp and final output are identical) and S11E11 always reports re-ecoding. (video in Temp and final output do have differences). And my CPU and GPU never spike.


So now I'm left with the following questions..

1. Besides Hulu, which services (and titles) also see re-encoding like this? (I'm not going to count Amazon until they fix that mess).
2. What makes it such that S11E11, with what APPEARS to be the same video characteristics before processing, needs to have video re-encoded, rather than re-muxed like S11E10.
3. Why does this happen with only SOME videos and not others?
4. IS everyone seeing the spikes in CPU/GPU? Or just some?
5. IF I'm the only on not seeing spikes, is there something unique about my system that don't I see the spikes during encoding like others have reported? (my RTX3060 GPU isn't the beefiest, it doesn't perform any faster than my GTX1660ti for video encoding tasks with DVDFab stuff or other products)

I expect #2 and 3 can only be answered by the developers so I doubt we'll get an answer, but hopefully they are aware of it, and can find a fix.

[tdfrgsn]

Besides Hulu, which services (and titles) also see re-encoding like this?

I can only give you my experiences based on what services I use. Like Hulu, Netflix and Paramount+ seem to re-encode everything added after June 1 presumably because of the DRM change but older titles are not modified. I haven't seen anything from HBO Max be re-encoded regardless of age, it's possible it does and I missed it. Everything from Discovery+ is re-encoded regardless of date.

[TarantinoMariachi]

tdfrgsn was right, dvdfab was reencoding the files, very easy to check that... but well.
I even download myself manually, it gives a little of manual work to do it, but for comparison purpose it was needed, and the quality and size and video information were not near to be the same.
It is not that hard to bypass widevine l3 protection.

Todays release already fixed it.

[tdfrgsn]

I can honestly say I have NOT see RE-ENCODING message before when downloading. And I've downloaded from Amazon (before it broke, as I'm not downloading anything there until its fixed and gives better than SD), Netflix, HBOMax, Disney+, Paramount+, as well as a few TV Series from Hulu.

Just wanted to follow-up on this, from what I've seen the DRM issues with Hulu at least seem to have been resolved in 4.0.1.3. I went back and tested a number of shows and movies and it appears that everything is being processed without re-encoding again.