BD Ripper (3D Plus) Forced Subtitles

[enusbaum]

When I backup my Blu-Rays using Blu-Ray Ripper to play in my bedroom, my player doesn't support external idx/sub files, so I always directly render them to the video. Great feature!

The problem I have is when there are multiple English subtitle tracks. What I'm forced to do is backup the movie selecting all English subtitle tracks with Forced Subs Only and see if the idx/sub has any subtitles in it after the backup is complete. IF there are subs in the idx/sub, I have to go back, figure out the proper stream and then re-backup the movie directly rendering the correct stream to the backup.

I was wondering if there's a way in 2-pass encoding to detect forced subs on the first pass and auto-magically embed them on the second pass (even if there are multiple streams selected). Or perhaps after the first pass, prompt a dialogue that informs the user which tracks have forced subs prior to beginning the second pass.

I know that some movies use forced subs for the directors commentary, but I find that situation much less common than the one I described.

This would save me a bunch of headaches and time wasted re-backing up.

Thanks in advance!

[signals]

They recently made some improvements and added forced sub detection, but I am still a little vague on how (and how well) it works on BDs. I suggest this procedure which I use to figure these out:

If you know some of the chapters that contain forced subs, use Blu-ray Copy to make a small rip of 2-3 chapters that contain all of the sub streams you might want. Then load the folder as a Source in Blu-ray Ripper and see if any of the streams are identified as forced. If not, play the Source using the DVDFab Preview window and watch each sub stream for a few minutes, changing if you don't find the ones you want. If you find it, make a test using your 3-chapter Source, select the stream and put a check in the Display only forced... box and select Direct Render and see if it works.

[sojourner353]

It would be so much easier if they just put a right click with drop down menu in the subtitles section so us end users could tick if we want a stream forced or not, I have seen movies wih forced only streams yet Fab doesn't enable them by default.

[signals]

You have confused me. Do you mean make an entire stream play by default in DVD Copy? You can do that in Main Movie, Customize and merge copy modes now by turning on the default stream arrow, by clicking just to the left of the sub stream selection box (same for changing the default audio stream). It will not filter the forced subs if they are mixed in with the main dialog stream except in DVD Ripper.

[enusbaum]

The first time I usually watch a movie I buy is via my Media Player in the bedroom so I don't always KNOW where subtitles are supposed to be.

The method I mentioned in my first post is the only way I know how to get forced subs properly directly rendered in a movie when there are multiple english subtitles.

It just sucks I basically have to backup the movie twice to do it.

[signals]

Look at the logs after DVDFab analyzes the disc, they will show which streams contain forced subs. Otherwise, use the short 2-3 chapter rips I suggested in an earlier post. The problem is that different discs have different ways of playing the translation subs, so it is difficult for any software to know what to do with them correctly every time.

[dglidden]

They recently made some improvements and added forced sub detection, but I am still a little vague on how (and how well) it works on BDs. I suggest this procedure which I use to figure these out:

If you know some of the chapters that contain forced subs, use Blu-ray Copy to make a small rip of 2-3 chapters that contain all of the sub streams you might want. Then load the folder as a Source in Blu-ray Ripper and see if any of the streams are identified as forced. If not, play the Source using the DVDFab Preview window and watch each sub stream for a few minutes, changing if you don't find the ones you want. If you find it, make a test using your 3-chapter Source, select the stream and put a check in the Display only forced... box and select Direct Render and see if it works.

What build is this in? I'm having more than a little difficulty with forced subtitles in some of my BD's and would like to try this feature to see if I can find out why.

[signals]

Any recent build should have it I believe. I will try it myself and see.

///////////EDIT//////////// I can't make it work with Avatar, the QA guys in Beijing are checking it.

[signals]

It works with any recent version of DVDFab BD Ripper, say from about a month or so ago onward. Here is the best way I found to use it:

If you suspect the movie might have forced subs (lots of translations necessary) you will need to make a test conversion of a few chapters using Blu-ray Ripper, set to a profile that allows more than one subtitle stream. I used the MP4 h264.aac profile. Go to the sub stream selection window and put a check mark in the boxes for the streams you think may contain the translations. Set the frame size to something small like 480x270 to help speed this up. Press Start and let the conversion run until it finishes, usually just a few minutes. If there are any forced subs, you will see them identified in the process window as the conversion runs.Click Finish in the DVDFab window. Now go look in the DVDFab \Log folder for the internal log, which you can open with Notepad. The log for the test conversion will be at the end of the file and should look like the one in the attachment, which shows you how to determine which stream had the forced subs (in this case, it was the first one on the list with a checkmark, as shown).

This is a cumbersome process but it works. My test movie was the original Blu-ray of Avatar. Hopefully the developers can be convinced to make this a little easier and more user-friendly.

[dglidden]

Signals, I followed your steps for Avatar Extended and when I looked at the log I didn't see where it said Analyze find forced subtitles instead the log said:

------ begin mobile work(1/1) ------


16m 38.95s: info: create config(5)
16m 38.95s: info: convert profile(mp4.h264.aac)
16m 38.95s: info: bluray playlist(3),angle(0),chapter(3->5),3D(0)
16m 38.96s: info: streams((4113.2)(4352.2)(4608.16)(4613.16))
16m 41.77s: info: not set correct fourcc for video(28)
16m 41.77s: info: set output video frame_rate(24000/1001)
16m 41.77s: info: subpicture preset(2), mode(10)
16m 41.77s: info: subpicture preset(2), mode(10)
16m 41.79s: try to use gpu acceleration(1) for video decoding
16m 41.79s: CUDA GPU acceleration for video decoding enabled
16m 41.79s: CUDA GPU acceleration for video encoding enabled
16m 41.79s: info: h264_encode: encode param profile(2) level(41) bitrate(3315)
16m 41.88s: subpicture(4608) mode(10)
16m 41.90s: info: processing source(00049.m2ts)
16m 46.95s: info: processing source(00002.m2ts)
19m 41.38s:


------ finish mobile work ------

As you can see it shows a subpicture (4608) mode(10), what does that mean?

[signals]

It means there are no forced subs in the two streams you selected, at least not any it could find. They may be handling the translations a different way on this disc.

Use the small preview window in DVDFab and play the title, switching between the sub streams until you find the right one, or turn them all off and see if the Navi speech translations may be burned into the movie video. (Right click on the preview screen while it is playing to select a different sub stream.) You might also test it will all codecs set to Software (no GPU).

[enusbaum]

Right, so as a feature request:

If the analysis knows that there are forced subs in a stream BEFORE I start ripping, can the UI signal which subtitle tracks contain them?

[signals]

It does not know before. It knows during. That is why I suggested a mini-rip of only a few chapters to run through BD Ripper to test.

[BenieUK]

How about an on/off option to check for forced subs.. enhanced scan maybe ?

[signals]

I have suggested something similar ("Deep Scan for forced"); this is a long standing discussion I have been having with the staff in Beijing. It sounds simple to say "scan for them", but it is more complex than it seems and there is also the question of developer's time for this and other improvements.