DVDFab 12.0.5.8 Forced subtitles available only with all subtitles

[cplloyd42]

I've got an annoying forced subtitles problem. I am trying to convert the blu-ray Jungle Cruise to mp4 format. This disk has German, 17th century Spanish and Portuguese mixed in with the English sound track. I find I can play with only the forced subtitles showing in PowerDVD20 after I installed the MPEG-4 AVC codec. Using the Preview in DVDFab, the only setting where I find I can see the forced subtitles are 'English' + 'Forced only'. Without the English turned on, no subtitles appear (the subtitles revert to 'None'). With it turned on, I get both the forced subtitles and all the English dialog (including descriptions of the sound effects). This occurs with the subtitle mode set either to 'Direct render to video' or 'Remux into file'. [Just to confuse the issue, there are 2 English sound tracks, the 2nd one does not display the English dialog, but does display annoying pop-ups which are intended to add amusing and other comments, including some Disney advertising, and it too allows me to see the forced subtitles.] Without 'Forced only' no subtitles appear, only the English dialog. Note: I have also tried mode=Remux, subtitles='English'='Normal and Forced only' with exactly the same results. Why is it that I cannot select 'Display only Forced Subtitle' without having the 'English' option selected - without 'English' selected, I cannot see the "Display only Forced Subtitle' option?

Can anyone help with this?

Paul Lloyd.

[october262]

I've got an annoying forced subtitles problem. I am trying to convert the blu-ray Jungle Cruise to mp4 format. This disk has German, 17th century Spanish and Portuguese mixed in with the English sound track. I find I can play with only the forced subtitles showing in PowerDVD20 after I installed the MPEG-4 AVC codec. Using the Preview in DVDFab, the only setting where I find I can see the forced subtitles are 'English' + 'Forced only'. Without the English turned on, no subtitles appear (the subtitles revert to 'None'). With it turned on, I get both the forced subtitles and all the English dialog (including descriptions of the sound effects). This occurs with the subtitle mode set either to 'Direct render to video' or 'Remux into file'. [Just to confuse the issue, there are 2 English sound tracks, the 2nd one does not display the English dialog, but does display annoying pop-ups which are intended to add amusing and other comments, including some Disney advertising, and it too allows me to see the forced subtitles.] Without 'Forced only' no subtitles appear, only the English dialog. Note: I have also tried mode=Remux, subtitles='English'='Normal and Forced only' with exactly the same results. Why is it that I cannot select 'Display only Forced Subtitle' without having the 'English' option selected - without 'English' selected, I cannot see the "Display only Forced Subtitle' option?

Can anyone help with this?

Paul Lloyd.

try using the ripper module and select "scan forced subtitles" - https://forum.dvdfab.cn/forum/softwa...rced-subtitles

[cplloyd42]

Thanks for your suggestion, october262. I have been using the Rip tool for all my tests. I tried your suggestion, but there is no advance on what I have described. So, the question is: why doesn't any option in 'Display only Forced Subtitle' not suppress the English dialog subtitles, or as I suggested, why do I need to have 'English' selected in order to access the 'Display only Forced Subtitle' options?

[october262]

Thanks for your suggestion, october262. I have been using the Rip tool for all my tests. I tried your suggestion, but there is no advance on what I have described. So, the question is: why doesn't any option in 'Display only Forced Subtitle' not suppress the English dialog subtitles, or as I suggested, why do I need to have 'English' selected in order to access the 'Display only Forced Subtitle' options?

do the forced subtitles show up if you preview the movie with subtitles disabled ??
see post #2 - https://forum.dvdfab.cn/forum/softwa...efault-setting

[cplloyd42]

No. With subtitles='None', obviously no, subtitles='English' (either track, or both together), no. It's only when I have any of the forced subtitile options selected that I see them.

[cplloyd42]

Correction! I thought that I would check my statement above as I had done quite a few permutations on the options available and I forgot what I had actually checked. Here's what I found:
1. There are 4 titles available under 'Output:'; they differ in the combinations of Audio and Subtitle settings. I have been using Title800 (the default selected by DVDFab) which has Audio=EN DTS-HD Master/7.1, Subtitle=EN. I have checked the other 3 titles and get the same results.
2. Using Title800, (this is the only one that has 2 English tracks,) the 2nd track does not show any subtitles (both English dialog & forced), only the annoying pop-up overlays I described earlier. So, we can dismiss this one.
3. Using Title800 and the 1st English track, I get all dialog and subtitles whether 'Display on Forced Subtitle' is selected or not. So, I get all or nothing (which is what I get with the other 3 titles oin the disk).

I hope my faulty memory in my last posting has not confused you. I rebooted my PC and rechecked these results, in case there was some sort of memory/setting that was not changing when it should - all check out the same.

[cplloyd42]

I decided to investigate further. My memory tells me that forced subtitles wasn't a problem for me until v12.0.5 (see for exmple my previous posting). So I tried v12.0.4.2, then v12.0.3.5. Both these show identical behaviour to v12.0.5.x, which is not consistent with my (admittedly not perfect) memory. What is different is a) the disk, and b) the DVDFab extensions that were needed to play/rip this disk. So, is it the extension's behaviour w.r.t. this particular disk? I shall have to hunt around for an earlier forced subtitles rip and see if there is still an issue with the earlier version(s) sans the extensions, and this current version. It will probably take me a day or two to do this, but I will feed back my findings. [Note: the subtitles mode in all these most recent tests has been 'Direct render to video'.] [Note 2: If you want to check this behaviour for yourself, then a 50sec Spanish dialog occurs starting at 1:13:55 in my version of the video, of total runtime 2:07:19.]

[october262]

I decided to investigate further. My memory tells me that forced subtitles wasn't a problem for me until v12.0.5 (see for exmple my previous posting). So I tried v12.0.4.2, then v12.0.3.5. Both these show identical behaviour to v12.0.5.x, which is not consistent with my (admittedly not perfect) memory. What is different is a) the disk, and b) the DVDFab extensions that were needed to play/rip this disk. So, is it the extension's behaviour w.r.t. this particular disk? I shall have to hunt around for an earlier forced subtitles rip and see if there is still an issue with the earlier version(s) sans the extensions, and this current version. It will probably take me a day or two to do this, but I will feed back my findings. [Note: the subtitles mode in all these most recent tests has been 'Direct render to video'.] [Note 2: If you want to check this behaviour for yourself, then a 50sec Spanish dialog occurs starting at 1:13:55 in my version of the video, of total runtime 2:07:19.]

did you have any issues with forced subtitles using dvdfab 11 ??
i see they have v 11 still available - https://www.dvdfab.cn/download.htm?ad=forum_nav
might not hurt to try.

[cplloyd42]

Thanks for the suggestion, october262. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

[cplloyd42]

It's taken me a while but I decided to check the ripped output file against the Preview as the Preview didn't make much sense to me. The results are both interesting and worrying. Here's the test conditions:
Jungle Cruise (blu-ray, Region B, running length 2:07:19); Title800 selected which has 2 English subtitle tracks, dubbed EN1 & EN2 for this test
DVDFab v11.1.0.7 & v12.0.5.8; the rips were performed before the DVDFab extensions were loaded to enable Preview to work; subtitle mode = Direct render to video

(NB: I found that I could not format these results into columns for easy reading.)

DVDFab v11.1.0.7:
EN1 only || Subtitle result (rip file) | English dialog + forced subtitles || Subtitle result (Preview) | English dialog + forced subtitles
EN1+Forced only || Subtitle result (rip file) | no subtitles at all || Subtitle result (Preview) | English dialog + forced subtitles
EN2 only || Subtitle result (rip file) | forced subtitles only || Subtitle result (Preview) | pop-up overlays only
EN2+Forced only || Subtitle result (rip file) | no subtitles at all || Subtitle result (Preview) | pop-up overlays only

DVDFav v12.0.5.8:
EN1 only || Subtitle result (rip file) | English dialog + forced subtitles || Subtitle result (Preview) | English dialog + forced subtitles
EN1+Forced only || Subtitle result (rip file) | no subtitles at all || Subtitle result (Preview) | English dialog + forced subtitles
EN1+Forced+Scan || Subtitle result (rip file) | no subtitles at all || Subtitle result (Preview) | English dialog + forced subtitles
EN2 only || Subtitle result (rip file) | forced subtitles only || Subtitle result (Preview) | pop-up overlays only
EN2+Forced+Scan || Subtitle result (rip file) | no subtitles || Subtitle result (Preview) | pop-up overlays only

There is a distinct discrepancy between the Preview and the ripped file output, except for EN1 and EN2 only. The 'Display only forced subtitles' option isn't working as one would expect - like the EN2 output file - in all instances of its use with this disk (its name suggests that it would show only the forced subtitles, and not any other dialog).

The EN2 only output file is what I was after, so I have resolved my immediate problem. For the longer term, though, I'm not going to use the Preview facility as I can't be sure that what I see is what I'll get.
BTW: mistake correction - the 50sec old Spanish dialog starts at 1:12:55, not 1:13:55 as I mentioned earlier.

[cplloyd42]

Just to confuse the issue further. I have ripped the blu-ray disk, Black Widow (region B, runtime 2:13:47). This disk also has 2 English subtitle tracks. EN1 shows all English & forced dialog in both the ripped file and in Preview. EN2, though, shows only the forced dialog (ex Russian) in BOTH the ripped file and in Preview. So, the Jungle Cruise and this disk differ. Which is the anomaly?