A/V Sync issues and discussion

[Toonces T. Cat]

ting,

The subject line pretty much says it all: What can we do to help with the audio/video sync problem?

It appears to be completely hit and miss for me. I converted four of my titles to a mobile format (.3GP) yesterday. Two worked perfectly: the R4 versions of Vision Quest and Stealing Home...and two were audio sync disasters: Aliens: SE (the 154 min. version) and That Was Then...This Is Now. Both of these are R1 DVDs.

I have tried altering the frame rate, using stereo rather than Dolby Pro, using a very high (650kbps) bit-rate, ripping to the hard drive, and just about every combination of these settings I can think of.

Please give us a little guidance here...The only consistent symptom I've had is that the lack of sync is "always" progressive. The file always starts out in sync and by the end of the film it is anywhere from from .5 to 2 seconds off with the video always ahead of the audio.

Thanks!

-t

[signals]

Hi Toonces

You have the distinction of starting the first assistance thread in the new forum! We're happy you joined us.

Please tell us which exact profile you are using.
Do you see the A/V sync error if you play the file back on your PC as well as your mobile device (I assume a cellphone)?
Are any of the audio streams on the original DVDs DTS or something other than AC-3?

I test mobile files for sync issues with VLC Media Player, but unfortunately I don't have the discs you are using.

ting,

The subject line pretty much says it all: What can we do to help with the audio/video sync problem?

It appears to be completely hit and miss for me. I converted four of my titles to a mobile format (.3GP) yesterday. Two worked perfectly: the R4 versions of Vision Quest and Stealing Home...and two were audio sync disasters: Aliens: SE (the 154 min. version) and That Was Then...This Is Now. Both of these are R1 DVDs.

I have tried altering the frame rate, using stereo rather than Dolby Pro, using a very high (650kbps) bit-rate, ripping to the hard drive, and just about every combination of these settings I can think of.

Please give us a little guidance here...The only consistent symptom I've had is that the lack of sync is "always" progressive. The file always starts out in synce and by the end of the film it is anywhere from from .5 to 2 seconds off with the video always ahead of the audio.

Thanks!

-t

[Toonces T. Cat]

Profile and Cell Phone Type...

Hi Toonces

You have the distinction of starting the first assistance thread in the new forum! We're happy you joined us.

Please tell us which exact profile you are using.
Do you see the A/V sync error if you play the file back on your PC as well as your mobile device (I assume a cellphone)?
Are any of the audio streams on the original DVDs DTS or something other than AC-3?

I test mobile files for sync issues with VLC Media Player, but unfortunately I don't have the discs you are using.

The profile I'm using is: cellphone.3gp.mpeg4.aac.Samsung.A867.xml

It was created using the beta Profile editor. Here's a Notepad "copy and paste" of the file contents. The phone is a Samsung Eternity A867.

<profile name="cellphone.3gp.mpeg4.aac.Samsung.A867" description="The profile is used to create avi(xvid + mp3) file, which can be played on PC or supported device." version="200" device="cellphone" tag="" type="0">
<common>
<file format="3gp" onefile_size_mb="700" number="1" split_by_chapter="0">
<source>
</source>
</file>
<audio copy="0" codec="aac" channel="2" bitdepth="16">
<freq value="24000" list="24000,44100"/>
<bitrate value="64000" list="64000,128000"/>
<volume percent="175"/>
</audio>
<video>
<size list="320x240,320x180,320x140" out_size="320x240"/>
<subtitle>
<source force="0"/>
</subtitle>
<encode codec="mpeg4" fourcc="MPG4" bitrate_kbps="405" maxbitrate_kbps="645">
<mode value="real_time" list="real_time, high_quality" method="1"/>
<thread set="1" value="1"/>
</encode>
</video>
</common>
<acodec name="faac">
<common ver="0" layer="2"/>
</acodec>
<vcodec name="mpeg4">
</vcodec>
</profile>

____________________________

Yes, the error is present when the output file is played on my PC as well as on the phone...and BTW, it looks and sounds great if you can overlook the sync issue...

Thanks!

-t

[signals]

If it plays that way on the PC it is probably an encoding problem. Ting will look through this forum regularly and may have some ideas.

My LG cellphones will not tolerate video bitrates as high as the setting you are using, but if other content converts OK it is probably not the problem. I will try some 3GP conversions and see if I can duplicate the problem. What version of DVDFab are you using?

[Toonces T. Cat]

If it plays that way on the PC it is probably an encoding problem. Ting will look through this forum regularly and may have some ideas.

My LG cellphones will not tolerate video bitrates as high as the setting you are using, but if other content converts OK it is probably not the problem. I will try some 3GP conversions and see if I can duplicate the problem. What version of DVDFab are you using?

I'm using version 6.0.6.0

Thanks!

-t

[gamecaptor]

Hello Toonces.

I've also had an audio/video sync issue with Alien - Resurrection (special edition). I'm using the profile of generic.avi.xvid.audiocopy, 2-pass with 2000 bit rate with DVDFab 6.0.6.0 and I'm viewing it on my PC.

[chrisleo]

Having the issue as well

Hello All,

I have noticed the sync problem converting to AVI as well as h264. And mine as well is progressive. By the end of 2 hours, it was so noticeable that is was distracting. This is from a DVD we first converted from video of my band. I went back to see if the sync problem was with the Video To DVD recorder but it is dead on (and since it is music, it is easy to see that it is out of sync with the singer.)

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[signals]

I tried a couple of conversions today (but not the same titles) with Toonces' Samsung profile and they came out perfect, no sync problem when played with VLC on my PC. Maybe Ting can give us some ideas. You might try changing some of the settings in Common Settings->X to Mobile->Convert (disable Turbo CPU and change the memory allocation setting to something besides Auto or Max). Also, try one pass instead of two.

[olimage]

Same problems here using PS3 profiles, Generic profiles of the xvid and divx nature, and wmv profile. Tried one pass, two pass, stereo, dolby, dolby II, 6.0.4.0, 6.0.6.0, 6.0.5.2, etc, etc.

All trials go out of sync progressively.

[signals]

Same problems here using PS3 profiles, Generic profiles of the xvid and divx nature, and wmv profile. Tried one pass, two pass, stereo, dolby, dolby II, 6.0.4.0, 6.0.6.0, 6.0.5.2, etc, etc.

All trials go out of sync progressively.

Welcome to the new DVDFab Forum. Give us some details of your hardware and OS. Maybe there is a common factor in all this somewhere.

[Toonces T. Cat]

Here's one common factor...

Welcome to the new DVDFab Forum. Give us some details of your hardware and OS. Maybe there is a common factor in all this somewhere.

I experimented a bit today. I downloaded the trial versions of 6 or 7 different DVD to 3GP converters. I then used Fab to rip "Streets of Fire" to the HD. I chose it as it is one of the problem titles and has absolutely nothing special about it. It's a DVD5 with a DD5.1 audio track and a trailer. There are no second angles or any threading or other feature that is out of the ordinary.

All of them, CloneDVD Mobile, AVSConverter, DVD23GP, Plato, etc. all had the same creeping loss of audio sync that occurs in the conversion process. I don't know if that information is helpful, but at least I know now that it is definitely not a problem that is only found with DVDFab.

I wonder if it is possible to demux the converted file and then re-time it correctly...Any thoughts?

-t

[fengtao]

Yes, it's possible to re-time the A/V in the future versions.

We are working on new mobile settings UI, so that many operations will be possible.

[Toonces T. Cat]

Found a work-around that seems to work every time...

Yes, it's possible to re-time the A/V in the future versions.

We are working on new mobile settings UI, so that many operations will be possible.

I've found a work-around that seems to maintain audio/video sync 100%. Make no mistake, it is complicated, requires two additional pieces of software and even a touch of recoding if you need to boost the volume as I do.

Here's the process:

1. Rip the DVD to be converted with DVDFab to a DVD5 on your hard drive.

2. Convert the DVD5 to a standard mpeg file that maintains the proper timing. This doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm using ULead's DVD Movie Factory 4 to get the mpeg file. It will convert a 4Gb DVD in about 2 to 3 minutes.

3. I'm then using 3GP_Converter - Version 034...You can get it here:

http://www.digital-digest.com/softwa...5&ssid=0&did=1

I reconverted every title I had timing issues with using this method to get to a .3gp file and this did it correctly every time!

If you have a volume problem, do the following:

3GP_Converter uses "Transcoding .ini" files. To increase the volume, you'll have to modify at least two of them. The first is the "Transcoding.ini" contained in the main folder. The second file is the .ini file specific to your mobile device contained in the "default_setting" folder. I have a Samsung A867 Eternity and it uses the "Transcoding_3GPP_AAC.ini" file which produces a 320x240 output at 15FPS at about 400kbps. The final file for a 2 hour movie is about 300Mb on the drive.

Here's the original section of the file [Item2]:

[Item2]
Title=QVGA‚‰æŽ¿15fpsƒXƒeƒŒƒI
TitleE=QVGA High quality 15fps Stereo
Command0=""<%AppPath%>\cores\ffmpeg" -y -i "<%InputFile%>" -timestamp "<%TimeStamp%>" -bitexact -vcodec mpeg4 -fixaspect -s 320x240 -r 14.985 -b 400 -acodec aac -ac 2 -ar 16000 -ab 32 -f 3gp -muxvb 64 -muxab 32 "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp""
Command1=""<%AppPath%>\cores\QT3GPPFlatten" "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp" "<%OutputFile%>.3gp" -c QT_3GPP(MobileMP4)_QVGA_AAC.ini"
Command2="rm "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp""

Here's the modified section (in Bold Face)of the file [Item2]:

[Item2]
Title=QVGA‚‰æŽ¿15fpsƒXƒeƒŒƒI
TitleE=QVGA High quality 15fps Stereo
Command0=""<%AppPath%>\cores\ffmpeg" -y -i "<%InputFile%>" -timestamp "<%TimeStamp%>" -bitexact -vol 1536 -vcodec mpeg4 -fixaspect -s 320x240 -r 14.985 -b 400 -acodec aac -ac 2 -ar 16000 -ab 32 -f 3gp -muxvb 64 -muxab 32 "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp""
Command1=""<%AppPath%>\cores\QT3GPPFlatten" "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp" "<%OutputFile%>.3gp" -c QT_3GPP(MobileMP4)_QVGA_AAC.ini"
Command2="rm "<%TemporaryFile%>.3gp""

The number "1536" is arbitrary. I started with 768 and kept increasing it until I reach a satisfactory volume level.

Once I had this worked out, it takes me about 20 minutes longer for each DVD than using just Fab, but the sync is alway correct and now I'm happy and Fengtao and the other dev's can take their time getting the A/V sync right in Fab.

FINAL NOTE - Whatever program you use to convert the DVD to mpeg, check the sync on the mpeg before you proceed as 3GP_Converter doesn't fix the timing. It just maintains it correctly.

Enjoy!

-t

[GregiBoy]

Hi Toones....

I'm afraid that you are being a bit simplistic in your approach to the audio timing issue.

The audio timing issue results are different in each profile family as they use different codecs.

I generally use Deja Vu (R4) as my test title and have ripped it to hard disk so it is always available to me. The reason that I have set it up as my test sample is that it has a very complicated structure and has video interleaving present which is a great test to see if things work properly. I suggest that you isolate a similar title that you regard as a "PROBLEM CHILD".

My major interest is in H263 (highly modified generic.avi.xvid.audiocopy profile) and H264 (again a highly modifed generic.avi.h264.audiocopy profile) and I have found that with version 6.0.6.0 the audio synch is spot on.

So....

I suggest that you post the exact profile that you are using with ANY MODS so that Ting can at least try to find where the problem lies.

Regards
Greg

[Toonces T. Cat]

Okay...

Hi Toones....

I'm afraid that you are being a bit simplistic in your approach to the audio timing issue.

The audio timing issue results are different in each profile family as they use different codecs.

I suggest that you post the exact profile that you are using with ANY MODS so that Ting can at least try to find where the problem lies.

Regards
Greg

Greg,

Here's the profile:

- <profile name="cellphone.3gp.mpeg4.aac.Samsung.A867" description="The profile is used to create avi(xvid + mp3) file, which can be played on PC or supported device." version="200" device="cellphone" tag="" type="0">
- <common>
- <file format="3gp" onefile_size_mb="700" number="1" split_by_chapter="0">
<source />
</file>
- <audio copy="0" codec="aac" channel="2" bitdepth="16">
<freq value="24000" list="24000,44100" />
<bitrate value="64000" list="64000,128000" />
<volume percent="175" />
</audio>
- <video>
<size list="320x240,320x180,320x140" out_size="320x240" />
- <subtitle>
<source force="0" />
</subtitle>
- <encode codec="mpeg4" fourcc="MPG4" bitrate_kbps="405" maxbitrate_kbps="645">
<mode value="real_time" list="real_time, high_quality" method="1" />
<thread set="1" value="1" />
</encode>
</video>
</common>
- <acodec name="faac">
<common ver="0" layer="2" />
</acodec>
<vcodec name="mpeg4" />
</profile>

The only changes from the original Samsung D600 profile are the name and the volume level.

The two titles that have consistently given me problems are both R1: That Was Then...This Is Now, and The 13th Warrior. Which really confuses the heck out of me as I understand the 13th Warrior having issues as it has multiple angles and I can see where it might add a level of complexity that DVDFab is not handling, but the other film is completely plain-Jane in nature. It's a DVD5 with one 5.1 sound stream and zero extra features and yet it has the worst sync of all with DVDFab.

Using the method above, in the Main Movie mode, both titles sync up just fine....And, by the way, I wasn't suggesting that this method serve as anything but a temporary workaround for people using the D600 profile or one that is basically the same thing. I've used Fab for many years now and I have complete faith that the dev's will, in time, fix the issue for all mobile devices.

-t