DVD Ripper My investigations into audio sync issue

[AzDragonLord]

I don't know what is causing the problem....but I know what isn't!

Today I checked each movie and TV show that I've converted to AVI over the past few months, and one of the first problem AVIs (and first conversions)I have was created Feb 26th...so I'm certain it's NOT related to version 7. Several of my AVIs have audio sync issues while most do not...it all seems to be random. I have over twenty AVI files that have audio problems but I don't see anything in common...whether it's time, batch, software version, etc.

This doesn't help us correct the problem, but hopefully we can look at places other than version 7.

[GregiBoy]

To be quite honest, I have suspected the frame rate and the GPU acceleration for quite a while.

Another thing that I have remembered from years ago when I had a similar problem also was to turn off any overclocking.

I ALWAYS select "Same as source" and have had very little problems whatsoever and I do use the GPU.

Can you do a test with one of your "Problem Children" titles ensuring:-

1. Any overclocking is turned off
2. GPU Use is turned off
3. You physically select same as source

And let us know the results?

[midiwall]

I don't know what is causing the problem....but I know what isn't!
{snip}

There are many discussions about this issue, the last one that I was involved in turned up a profile that GregiBoy created:

http://forum.dvdfab.com/showpost.php?p=141&postcount=2

(download the TXT file, rename it as XML and put it in the PROFILES directory under the DVDFab home directory)

Using that cured the audio sync issue for me. But, looking at that profile versus any other profile doesn't make things clear as to WHY it worked. Note that this profile worked (for me) in either going from DVD to HD to AVI _or_ direct from DVD to AVI.

I've been running tests ever since... I have a current batch finishing up this evening, though I don't expect any conclusive results.

As you (and others) have said, this issue did NOT exist in DVDFab 6.2.2.0, it IS in the 7.0.4.0 version, but it's also in the 6.1.x.x version. 6.2.2.0 seems to be magic.

[GregiBoy]

Maybe, it is this parameter which I used in that profile which supposedly forces the frame rate to the same as source.

<outfps mode="1" /> "1" - equal as the source video fps

I did this as I am of the firm belief that to maintain the best quality possible, all attemps should be made to make the parameters of the output to be as close as possible to the parameters of the input with the exception of the bitrate which then becomes a personal choice.

As I said above, I have suspected the frame rate for a while and I just have a feeling that the problem titles have been authored at a peculiar frame rate.

As I said, it is just a suspicion and maybe you guys will be good enough to do a few tests.

Hope this theory (and that is all that it is) makes sense to you guys.

[IPopov50]

Guys, I want to share some observations with you. I think all these issues caused by several factors.
GregiBoy, you know how I like MKV. So, I remuxing all my content into MKVs using MKVmerge. Reading your posts it just flashed that every time i remuxing content from DVDFab, MKVmerge coming back with message something like: this stream do not contained fps field, assuming it 25 fps (default). Now I'm thinking, maybe Fab can't detect framerate as well and muxing streams in default, different from actual. It well could be a bug. However, in case actual framerate and defaulted are coincidentally same, result in perfect rip. So GregiBoy, if in your profile you set <outfps mode="1" /> (source framerate), and Fab cant detect it, it just may go to the hardcoded default, which is different from actual source.

Another factor I suspect, is in fact CUDA. From my experience working with other CUDA-enabled software, I can tell that concept of CUDA is where GPU takes full burden of calculation (and GPU load is about 90-95%), when CPU just involved in process management (with workload about 30-40%). In Fab it's other way around, and such multitasking may negatively affect the output.

Well, I might be wrong... these are just a thoughts.

[AzDragonLord]

As you (and others) have said, this issue did NOT exist in DVDFab 6.2.2.0, it IS in the 7.0.4.0 version, but it's also in the 6.1.x.x version. 6.2.2.0 seems to be magic.

Where can I find version 6.2.2.0? Best I can do is 6.2.1.8 which also seems to have the issue.

http://www.oldapps.com/dvdfab.php

[AzDragonLord]

Can you do a test with one of your "Problem Children" titles ensuring:-

1. Any overclocking is turned off
2. GPU Use is turned off
3. You physically select same as source

And let us know the results?

My MediaPC isn't overclocked, and "same as source" is always selected. The "GPU Use" is on by default I think, but I will try it turned off and post results.

[sanger]

6.2.2.0 was a Beta release. It can be loacted here:
http://72.55.191.8/download/DVDFab6220Beta.exe

I also ran some tests last night. I tried my problem file "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" that I have ripped onto my HDD. I converted to avi using the h264.mp3 and xvid.mp3 profiles. The audio was fine. It stayed synched through all of the movie. I checked the same scenes at 5 different locations. However, zune.wmv profile has always worked for me until 7040. I've tried converting this file using zune.wmv with many different settings w/o success. I used my usual 850 bitrate and a 2 pass coonversion for all of them.

The Zune does recognize the avi.xvid.mp3 profile, but will not recognize the h264 profiles.

[midiwall]

I have my results of a battery of example encodings.

The test disc was Max Payne. The specific marker was at 1:21:44, a group of people walking in an underground garage. And at 1:21:50, a body falls out of a car with a distinct Foley added "thump".

The DVD was first ripped to HD, and checked that the audio was in sync. This was done with DVDFab v7.0.4.0.

• Good
  • MAX_PAYNE_VOBPassThough_720x480
  
  
  
• Bad, i.e., Audio Sync issues
  • MAX_PAYNE_avi_h264_720x304_Fast_787kbps
  • MAX_PAYNE_avi_h264_720x304_High_1100kbps
  • MAX_PAYNE_avi_h264_848x358_fast_1100kbps_23.976fps
  • MAX_PAYNE_avi_h264_848x358_fast_1100kbps_30fps
  • MAX_PAYNE_avi_h264_Samsung_720x304_High_1100kbps
  • MAX_PAYNE_mp4_h264_720x304_Fast_787kbps
  • MAX_PAYNE_mp4_h264_720x304_High_1100kbps

And yes, Greg's Samsung profile _failed_ this time. I did it twice to be sure.

I'm going to repeat these tests using 6.2.2.0 and see what happens.

None of this makes sense...

[CBR929]

I do not know what may be causing the sync issues, but am trying to read up on information about it and causes of it whether it be codes, or other factors.
A few things which would have to be tested, whether related or not would have to be power options settings on computers. Could any of these have any thing to do with the problem?
Examples: Screen saver, Put the computer to sleep, Turn of hard disks, Hibernate, and so on. Could any of these have a slight (hip cup) effect? I don't know
Also as GregiBoy suggests

To be quite honest, I have suspected the frame rate and the GPU acceleration for quite a while.

I do not know what the code is or how it is set but, I have come across this about frame rate after a rip tutorial about Vobs where the frame rate was wrong and had to be corrected.

The line we are looking for is: Frame_Rate=23976 (24000/1001)

This is how 23.976 is calculated. 24000 / 1001 = 23.976023976023976023976023976024 <--- This number causes rounding issues

Change it to this: Frame_Rate=23976 (2997/125)

Now the calculation is: 2997 / 125 = 23.976 <-- A perfect fraction that won't cause rounding issues.

Is the Bold a code calculation in Fab? I know nothing about codes and encoding, just trying to find a common denominator in the problems an whether they are related or not I'm not sure.

This may or may not I don't know
CBR929

[midiwall]

I do not know what the code is or how it is set but, I have come across this about frame rate after a rip tutorial about Vobs where the frame rate was wrong and had to be corrected.

The line we are looking for is: Frame_Rate=23976 (24000/1001)

This is how 23.976 is calculated. 24000 / 1001 = 23.976023976023976023976023976024 <--- This number causes rounding issues

Change it to this: Frame_Rate=23976 (2997/125)

Now the calculation is: 2997 / 125 = 23.976 <-- A perfect fraction that won't cause rounding issues.CBR929

I like the theory, but I'm confused...

Are you saying you found the Frame_Rate tag in the profiles? I didn't see any of them using it.

Or, are you saying that this was information that came from a tutorial you found online, and thus you're basically asking for the developer to confirm that he's using an absolute calculation for frame rate, and not something with repeating fractions?


Can you please post a link to the tutorial you found?

edit: Found it... It's a tutorial about editing raw VOB files and how editors compute the frame rate wrong. Ref:

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/edit-a-vob-without-intermediate-files-t338866.html

[CBR929]

I like the theory, but I'm confused...

Are you saying you found the Frame_Rate tag in the profiles? I didn't see any of them using it.

Or, are you saying that this was information that came from a tutorial you found online, and thus you're basically asking for the developer to confirm that he's using an absolute calculation for frame rate, and not something with repeating fractions?


Can you please post a link to the tutorial you found?

I don't think I could post it here. Yes, it was found online and not in profiles.

If you any mod would like the link I could Pm it. Yes you found it.
Hope this may help
CBR929

[GregiBoy]

I think we are into the normal confusion here again as you guys have started posting about two different things here, DVD to Mobile & Blu-Ray to Mobile.

ALL OF MY COMMENTS are DVD->MOBILE ONLY.

I have absolutely no experience (nor any interest) in the Blu-Ray crap. I regard the whole Blu-Ray scenario as an under-achieving, over-priced attempt by manufacturers & studios to bleed more money from consumers by selling more hardware and poorly authored titles.

[CBR929]

I think we are into the normal confusion here again as you guys have started posting about two different things here, DVD to Mobile & Blu-Ray to Mobile.

ALL OF MY COMMENTS are DVD->MOBILE ONLY.

I have absolutely no experience (nor any interest) in the Blu-Ray crap. I regard the whole Blu-Ray scenario as an under-achieving, over-priced attempt by manufacturers & studios to bleed more money from consumers by selling more hardware and poorly authored titles.

I'm sorry if I had posted anything off topic. I was just trying to help not knowing if it was related or not, I didn't know.
I do not do conversions, or changing things to different formats, just DVD to DVD burns and like they say ( two heads are better than one) so I was just trying to sort out different solutions.
Again Sorry
CBR929

[signals]

Remember in all your testing that there are 3 settings to control the output framerate, one in the GUI on the Edit page, one in the profile and another in Common Settings. Some can override others, producing unanticipated results. The control logic for this has been changed several times in DVD to Mobile.